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  1. #221
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    *smiles*

    It's interesting. Fe is built to make things work, much like Te. It works with what it has. And, it's pragmatic, unlike Fi or Ti.

    Where Te will build on what it has in a logical way, geared towards getting things accomplished, done, organized and up and running, Fe will do the same, but with regards to people.

    That means that Fe is prone to work with what it has. People, in this case. And people, are rarely perfect. In fact, it's part of being human, to be flawed. It would make sense that Fe, in order to get the job done, to keep the group together, would not require utmost truth, much like Te, as long as it works. That means that Fe-users work with what they have: flawed people. And, to get those people to attain the goal that is beneficial to all of them, it would require a handling of those people which would give in the best results, the result that is beneficial to each individual in that group as well.

    In contrast, Fi seeks perhaps the ultimate truth in values, and morals and how a person should be. But in the process, gets so bogged down in 'doing things right', that often it's not obtainable in this flawed world. It's a nice ideal but...that's it. Same goes for Ti. You can iron out all the logical flaws but might just lack the means and methods to actually put them into practice. Te might find a 'dirty' way around that problem and get things working....what's more important? The theoretical truth? Or the fact that we're getting somehwere?

    Fe does what it does best. It gets people motivated to do the right thing, to make the best of who they are...despite the flaws, and it works around those flaws. If one of those flaws is that that particular person would have their heart torn out if you told them the absolute blunt truth, then that would be contra-productive towards the contribution that person is otherwise very much capable towards attaining the goal..towards being the best they can be. Yes..it is a problem, one that needs fixing and solving, but it's a problem for tomorrow. Today, there's another goal at stake, and that goal requires this person to be respected, warts and all, in order to get there, and so he should be, as he deserves to be, considering the merit he has in this goal, and maybe in many others. This merit earns him the respect of the group, and outweighs any flaws (such as not being able to bear the truth) when looking at the larger picture. And with that respect, comes the specific treatment that person requires.

    I'd say Fe-users are masters at seeing that.

    I'd personally instantly lose sight of the common goal and start this person on their journey to self-growth..which, if they're not ready for that, could take forever, meanwhile having everything that depended on this person break down. Not practical at all.
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  2. #222
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    ^^ Wow. Great post
    Quote Originally Posted by Emmilou View Post
    Also Fe is the function most prone to "fakeness" which really just refers to untrue to yourself in order to please others. But I don't think Fe users are being fake at all, it's just that it's being true to themselves to alter their values in accordance with the society they are a part of.
    People exist on more levels than just the individual level. There exists of hierarchy of social structures from individual to society that are relevant in defining the individual. Having more acute awareness at various of these levels is not an issue of fakeness, but of awareness. There is an ideal in Western culture that says the individual is supreme and that decisions and the entire focus should ultimately be on self. This is actually a distortion of reality because we do not exist as individuals only, but also as groups at various levels. An individual is healthy and exists well when there is balance between the needs of self and the group. Sometimes it is a positive, intelligent, honest, and healthy thing to submit something of oneself to a group. In the end it is an issue of balance.

    Fe is not necessarily untrue to self or fake, but it is awareness at a different level and being true at that level.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  3. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by Annwn View Post
    ^^ Wow. Great post

    People exist on more levels than just the individual level. There exists of hierarchy of social structures from individual to society that are relevant in defining the individual. Having more acute awareness at various of these levels is not an issue of fakeness, but of awareness. There is an ideal in Western culture that says the individual is supreme and that decisions and the entire focus should ultimately be on self. This is actually a distortion of reality because we do not exist as individuals only, but also as groups at various levels. An individual is healthy and exists well when there is balance between the needs of self and the group. Sometimes it is a positive, intelligent, honest, and healthy thing to submit something of oneself to a group. In the end it is an issue of balance.

    Fe is not necessarily untrue to self or fake, but it is awareness at a different level and being true at that level.
    Hm, well I was actually trying to get at something like that (except not as refined) but I didn't convey it very well. When I said

    "fakeness" which really just refers to untrue to yourself in order to please others
    I meant to say that's how I imagined the OP was thinking of fakeness.That's why I used quotation marks around fakeness. But I was trying to say it really wasn't fake at all, because Fe isn't about the individual.

    Thank you though, your post was much deeper and clearer than my own.

  4. #224
    That's my name biotch! JoSunshine's Avatar
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    To Satine

    I think this describes my Fe and way of being nearly perfectly. I couldn't have said it better myself
    "Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. " - Dr. Seuss
    I can't spell...get over it

    Slightly ENFJ, totally JoSunshine
    Extroverted (E) 52.5%........Introverted (I) 47.5%
    Intuitive (N) 65.63%..........Sensing (S) 34.38%
    Feeling (F) 55.56%............Thinking (T) 44.44%
    Judging (J) 51.43%............Perceiving (P) 48.57%

  5. #225
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satine View Post
    *smiles*

    It's interesting. Fe is built to make things work, much like Te. It works with what it has.
    Perhaps this indicates why my ENTJ best friend and I sometimes appear to have the same reaction to something on the surface, esp when it's about something unjust, underhanded or disrespectful. We have the "Get it done" switch, or in more hair-trigger times, the "guillotine" button. Off with their heads. We don't suffer fools very well.

    Where Te will build on what it has in a logical way, geared towards getting things accomplished, done, organized and up and running, Fe will do the same, but with regards to people.
    Precisely. She wants to fix the system and benefit the wronged party. I want to reconstruct their psyches and bring comfort to their environment. Same pimp-slap, different means. We both want the wrong righted, we both want the victim to be consoled, and we have been known to bounce offenders between us like those fools in "Night at the Roxbury" until they start freaking out. lol

    That means that Fe is prone to work with what it has. People, in this case. And people, are rarely perfect. In fact, it's part of being human, to be flawed. It would make sense that Fe, in order to get the job done, to keep the group together, would not require utmost truth, much like Te, as long as it works. That means that Fe-users work with what they have: flawed people. And, to get those people to attain the goal that is beneficial to all of them, it would require a handling of those people which would give in the best results, the result that is beneficial to each individual in that group as well.
    It's a strange balance. I see people as generally well-intentioned while believing them capable of just about anything. Almost as if I'm dealing with former convicts who have the best of motives... for THEM. It's a sliding scale, you see. Those who are most self-aware are held to very high standards while those who are clearly divorced from themselves or in a shadow they're trying to struggle free from, they're held to lower standards. It's as if some of them were con men in a former life and don't remember, and have no clue why they act the way they do.

    This brings me to cynicism versus skepticism - cynics rule out everything through a specific and singular filter set to personal arrogant standards, disbelieving everything and treating everything with contempt because they're either too stupid or too afraid to observe every aspect of life, denying that hope springs eternal in order to deaden their humanity, while the skeptic takes the events and trials and still chooses to remain human while weighing everything to understand it's true nature. I see Fe as a skeptic who wishes to see someone awaken to their personal truth as pertains to the truth we already see in them. We aren't cynics about humanity while weighing them and judging at the same time. The good people and the constant stream of con men, outlaws, freaks, you name it.

    That built in eternal hope for people can be maddening.
    eNFJ 4w3 sx/so 468 tritype
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    RLUEI, Choleric/Melancholic
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    AIS Holland code
    Researcher: VDI-P
    Dramatic>Sensitive>Serious

  6. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by fill View Post
    I know ENFJs have a want to please people, which in turn rewards them with appreciation, but is this a genuine system? I ask this because I think the other side involves plans or goals. With this in mind, couldn't they please people simply for the sake of their goal?

    So I think there's a variable that decides this all: whether the ultimate outcome of the goal is intended to help others or themselves.

    I feel I've dealt with both sides, but mostly the latter. I have a friend that will "help" you, but in the end it had nothing to do with friendship, but an underlying goal in which I have to "keep my end of the deal" and help out with. I think this also has to do with charisma and trying to uphold it in order to accomplish a goal.

    Am I talking about Hitler yet?
    I dont try to help others to gain appreciation, and I also dont do it with the expectation that they will keep their end of any imagined "deal". I cannot speak for others and their motivations, but I can say that these two things dont come into it at all for me.

    I just.... do it. If I see that someone is insecure, I try to do or say things that will make them feel secure. If I see that someone is having a rivalry with another person, I will do and say things to both parties that are likely to build a bridge of understanding. I am very subtle, I do these things naturally, and if there are reasons, it is
    - that I CAN
    - and that I like things to be smooth and harmonious
    - and that I like for people to feel good

    I think that ENFJs can see and sense things that other people might not notice. If most people could not see a thorn in someone elses foot, but you COULD, would you pull it out? Would you poke it and make it hurt more? Would you pull it out and then expect some sort of a reward for having done so?

    These are all ENFJ choices in my opinion. For me, I pull it out, I try to do so without being detected, and I dont want or need a reward.

    Hope that helps. Cheers!

  7. #227
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    Let's just be insensitive jackasses. There! All fixed!
    eNFJ 4w3 sx/so 468 tritype
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    EII-Fi subtype, Ethical/Empath, Delta/Beta
    RLUEI, Choleric/Melancholic
    Inquistive/Limbic
    AIS Holland code
    Researcher: VDI-P
    Dramatic>Sensitive>Serious

  8. #228
    Senior Member Sparrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Domino View Post
    Let's just be insensitive jackasses. There! All fixed!
    Hahaha yea F*ck off losers. Your hair is butt ugly....now go home and cry to mama.

    Was that good?

    (the above statement is a joke...duh! dont wanna get in trouble from the mod police)
    Fe | Ni | Se | Ti ... 3w4 ... Lawful Neutral ... Johari -Nohari

  9. #229
    Aquaria mrcockburn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparrow View Post
    Hahaha yea F*ck off losers. Your hair is butt ugly....now go home and cry to mama.

    Was that good?

    (the above statement is a joke...duh! dont wanna get in trouble from the mod police)
    O-oh yeah? Yeah well, your BUTT HAIR IS UGLY.
    3w4-9w1-?w6 (nearly headless nick)
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    http://sundrytimes.files.wordpress.c...tomic-bomb.jpg


  10. #230
    Senior Member Sparrow's Avatar
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    WAHHH!!!!!! --> ---> --> Runs home to mommy...
    Fe | Ni | Se | Ti ... 3w4 ... Lawful Neutral ... Johari -Nohari

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