[NF] Why are NF good in fighting for others but not for themselves?

[Virtual ghost]

I can't even remember how othen I have heard something like this as side comment in a post made by NF.

So I am wondering why NFs often have so many problems with caring for their own needs? Seriously what's the problem ?

I will post more as the thread goes.

 

[ceecee]

I can see where you are coming from - they're very likely to forgo their own needs, even in cases of self-presevation but I think more mature ones will fight for themselves.

 

[Virtual ghost]

I can see where you are coming from - they're very likely to forgo their own needs, even in cases of self-presevation but I think more mature ones will fight for themselves.

Well it is not that I hava problem with this it is just that we had a number of thread about killing, hurt feeling and similar bad stuff. But to me some of the post in these threads look a way too empathic.

Plus I have met a number of people that are like this in "real life".

 

[Phantonym]

Well it is not that I hava problem with this it is just that we had a number of thread about killing, hurt feeling and similar bad stuff. But to me some of the post in these threads look a way too empathic.

Plus I have met a number of people that are like this in "real life".

When you're able to calmly theorize in the comfort of your own home or wherever, behind a computer or talking with your friends, it's easier to be empathetic. Way too empathetic, as you put it. When the reality hits, people will either fight or flight, and that might not depend on type.

 

[Virtual ghost]

When you're able to calmly theorize in the comfort of your own home or wherever, behind a computer or talking with your friends, it's easier to be empathetic. Way too empathetic, as you put it. When the reality hits, people will either fight or flight, and that might not depend on type.

I hope that you realize that this means that a number of NFs are deluding themselves if this is true.

 

[Phantonym]

I hope that you realize that this means that a number of NFs are deluding themselves if this is true.

Deluding themselves that they are...empathetic? Everybody is deluding themselves with something.

 

[Jaguar]

Everybody is deluding themselves with something.

Indeed.

 

[runvardh]

And some delusions are nice to keep...

 

[Virtual ghost]

Deluding themselves that they are...empathetic? Everybody is deluding themselves with something.

Well that is what comes out from your post. However I do think that NFs are porbably the most accomodating temperament. As a matter of fact I think that you are hidding your empathy / friendly nature more then it actually looks like.


To be honest with everybody: while I was searching for a number of answers about feelings I had PM exchanges with a number of NF and pretty much all of them appeard clearly warmer 1 on 1. What means that I tend you think that you are not deluding yourselfs, instead you just feel really uncomfortable showing certain parts of yourself in public.


And to add one more thing, I tend to think that this has its roots in evolution since emotional supression did not exit until a few thousand years. (and least not to a degree in which it exists today.)
So emotional exchanges were probably more common than today. What places NF temperament in uncomfortable position since in developed world individuals should mostly just care for themselves. What often can be opposite of working for the common good.
While undeveloped world has the culture in which human life does not worth much.


So to sum it: I think that you have grown defences against all of this and supressed parts of yourselves but this still comes out every now and then. (generally speaking)

 

[sculpting]

And to add one more thing, I tend to think that this has its roots in evolution since emotional supression did not exit until a few thousand years. (and least not to a degree in which it exists today.
So emotional exchanges were probably more common than today. What places NF temperament in uncomfortable position since in developed world individuals should mostly just care for themselves. What often can be opposite of working for the common good.
While undeveloped world has the culture in which human life does not worth much.


So to sum it: I think that you have grown defences against all of this and supressed parts of yourselves but this still comes out every now and then. (generally speaking)

Not sure about your assertion regarding emotional suppression. I would suggest that is an innate biologically conserved mechanism. My guess-a theory I suppose-is that up until a few thousand years ago, we evolved to function in small hunter/gatherer bands of less than 100 or so. You grew up and lived your entire life around the same set of individuals.

As a feeler of either Fe or Fi, you were safer and could trust those around you more to be honest and open, and to reciprocate. You supply the group with Fi-empathy or Fe-warm love, nuturing and caring and in turn get supplied with Ti-logic or Te-protection from others in the group.

This gets very messy when the group becomes several million in a large city.

Yes I absolutely hide and protect my emotional side. I have spent much of my life avoiding emotional connections or openess as it is a profound weakness. It's funny as I know I emo dump here, as for some reason it feels safer. It's like an anon emo practice ground where I can try out my emo now and then. In real life, I dont talk about my feelings much at all.

However - your original question- I can answer that for me with my flavor of Fi/Te only I suppose.

Ne funnels others' pain, anxiety and unhappiness into my perception. I cant block it very well. Fi then mirrors this pain internally inside of me, putting me in significant emotional pain/anxiety. I MUST help them or I continue to hurt. I then get "graded" on how good my helping efforts were by Te, maker of metrics. Typically I FAIL. Then I feel horribly guilty and incompetent-with Ne making it a continous cycling refrain. Pain-fail-pain-fail-pain-fail.

Even worse is that I can tag team NeTe pretty well. It's a bit like being psychic with respect to organizational strategy and long term consequences of decisions. So I can see the results of many decisions very early and then I get to "feel" pain for others in the future, due to the poor results of the decisions, for changes that have not even happened yet.

The little bits of cheated Fe I have tasted are more centered on this driving desire to care for the other. The other is the centerpiece??? Their happiness calms me and soothes me and leads me to try and enhance their happiness. With Fi I feel utter, stunning bliss at the happiness of the other, but the pain-fail cycle is such a fucking downer. I enjoy my cheated Fe moments.

 

[Lauren Ashley]

So I am wondering why NFs often have so many problems with caring for their own needs? Seriously what's the problem ?

I don't have any problems with this, at all. I tend to care about both myself and others.

 

[Charmed Justice]

Hmm, I can't say that I have an issue with fighting for myself or meeting my own needs.

As far as NFs appearing friendlier one-one, I could see that.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Not sure about your assertion regarding emotional suppression. I would suggest that is an innate biologically conserved mechanism. My guess-a theory I suppose-is that up until a few thousand years ago, we evolved to function in small hunter/gatherer bands of less than 100 or so. You grew up and lived your entire life around the same set of individuals.

As a feeler of either Fe or Fi, you were safer and could trust those around you more to be honest and open, and to reciprocate. You supply the group with Fi-empathy or Fe-warm love, nuturing and caring and in turn get supplied with Ti-logic or Te-protection from others in the group.

This gets very messy when the group becomes several million in a large city.

Yes I absolutely hide and protect my emotional side. I have spent much of my life avoiding emotional connections or openess as it is a profound weakness. It's funny as I know I emo dump here, as for some reason it feels safer. It's like an anon emo practice ground where I can try out my emo now and then. In real life, I dont talk about my feelings much at all.

However - your original question- I can answer that for me with my flavor of Fi/Te only I suppose.

Ne funnels others' pain, anxiety and unhappiness into my perception. I cant block it very well. Fi then mirrors this pain internally inside of me, putting me in significant emotional pain/anxiety. I MUST help them or I continue to hurt. I then get "graded" on how good my helping efforts were by Te, maker of metrics. Typically I FAIL. Then I feel horribly guilty and incompetent-with Ne making it a continous cycling refrain. Pain-fail-pain-fail-pain-fail.

Even worse is that I can tag team NeTe pretty well. It's a bit like being psychic with respect to organizational strategy and long term consequences of decisions. So I can see the results of many decisions very early and then I get to "feel" pain for others in the future, due to the poor results of the decisions, for changes that have not even happened yet.

The little bits of cheated Fe I have tasted are more centered on this driving desire to care for the other. The other is the centerpiece??? Their happiness calms me and soothes me and leads me to try and enhance their happiness. With Fi I feel utter, stunning bliss at the happiness of the other, but the pain-fail cycle is such a fucking downer. I enjoy my cheated Fe moments.

This is exactly why I said what I said.


Actually some of the NF in their PMs said that they would/could have a problem trusting me in real life because of my deficit of warmth.

 

[BerberElla]

However - your original question- I can answer that for me with my flavor of Fi/Te only I suppose.

Ne funnels others' pain, anxiety and unhappiness into my perception. I cant block it very well. Fi then mirrors this pain internally inside of me, putting me in significant emotional pain/anxiety. I MUST help them or I continue to hurt. I then get "graded" on how good my helping efforts were by Te, maker of metrics. Typically I FAIL. Then I feel horribly guilty and incompetent-with Ne making it a continous cycling refrain. Pain-fail-pain-fail-pain-fail.

Even worse is that I can tag team NeTe pretty well. It's a bit like being psychic with respect to organizational strategy and long term consequences of decisions. So I can see the results of many decisions very early and then I get to "feel" pain for others in the future, due to the poor results of the decisions, for changes that have not even happened yet.

The little bits of cheated Fe I have tasted are more centered on this driving desire to care for the other. The other is the centerpiece??? Their happiness calms me and soothes me and leads me to try and enhance their happiness. With Fi I feel utter, stunning bliss at the happiness of the other, but the pain-fail cycle is such a fucking downer. I enjoy my cheated Fe moments.

I identify with this a hell of alot. Although I don't think I could recognise any cheated Fe moment, it always seem like the pain fail cycle to me.

I do fight more for others than myself, in truth I have more optimism when it comes to other people, I find it easier to fight for another person if I have hope it will lead somewhere. I do not hope for myself, I feel unable to for many reasons that I struggle to deal with, so I invest in others instead.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Hmm, I can't say that I have an issue with fighting for myself or meeting my own needs.
As far as NFs appearing friendlier one-one, I could see that.

That was not my point/question actually .
My point was how likely is that you will place someone elses needs before your own. (especially if it isn't something big)

 

[Charmed Justice]

That was not my point/question actually .
My point was how likely is that you will place someone elses needs before your own. (especially if it isn't something big)

Ideally, whoever has the most desperate needs gets served first in my world. So, I'd say it's very likely that I place other people's needs before my own(in many instances) because I generally feel like my own cup is relatively full.

 

[sculpting]

Actually some of the NF in their PMs said that they would/could have a problem trusting me in real life because of my deficit of warmth.

This doesnt bother me at all as I know several INTJs IRL and once I figured them out a bit, I realized they really like the sweet emo Fi-ness. I have never had one respond in an intentionally cruel fashion to me, so there is an implicit trust/honesty. They are very true to exactly what they are and consistently so.

I identify with this a hell of alot. Although I don't think I could recognise any cheated Fe moment, it always seem like the pain fail cycle to me.

I do fight more for others than myself, in truth I have more optimism when it comes to other people, I find it easier to fight for another person if I have hope it will lead somewhere. I do not hope for myself, I feel unable to for many reasons that I struggle to deal with, so I invest in others instead.

I will fight to the depths of hell for others. I feel I am hopeless most days but I would give anything needed to help others.

Try meditation-mindful meditation during the day, cutting off the Ne endless exploration. Also focused meditation on a single item. By slowing down Ne I think it shuts off all the crap getting dumped internal-may also help us access Fe a little to give us some grey area. Fe is a beautiful protective function.

That was not my point/question actually .
My point was how likely is that you will place someone elses needs before your own. (especially if it isn't something big)

This is tricky. I think Fi is a huge energy drain-it takes a shitload of energy to use. So innately I fight for big battles. I put their most important needs before my own and will do whatever I can to see them be happy. However given the energy drain, innately Fi/Te calculates an ROI on a potential action. If it is something little-like dropping of cookies after a church service-nope. It doesnt generate enough happy Fi ROI vibes to make up for the energy expanded.

Saving the jobs of a group of people or fighting for whales? Joan of arc martyrism? Big happy Fi vibes, thus I regain the energy expended.

I think this is why often ENFPs need to be emotionally invested in what they are attempting. Otherwise we cant find the energy to stay structured.

 

[Virtual ghost]

This doesnt bother me at all as I know several INTJs IRL and once I figured them out a bit, I realized they really like the sweet emo Fi-ness. I have never had one respond in an intentionally cruel fashion to me, so there is an implicit trust/honesty. They are very true to exactly what they are and consistently so.

Well most people don't know what INTJ means. (especially where I live)

On the other hand I can't get "under the persons skin" fairly easy with my sarcastic comments and giving insensitive feedback even by INTJ standards. (which is because of my past and life philosophy)

 

[monocycle]

I don't have any problems caring for my own needs.

My point was how likely is that you will place someone elses needs before your own. (especially if it isn't something big)

I try to put other's needs before my own because I like seeing other people comfortable/happy. Plus, if isn't something big, then it shouldn't be a big enough of a problem to warrant me being uncomfortable/unhappy.

 

[toast]

I think NFs are so dang empathetic that they naturally assume everyone is. Some people have to work on empathy, or just don't think it matters at all. Its our bread n' butter in our involvements with others... And our self-righteous idealism makes us think: "If we both empathize (cause I assume we do), then it is only 'right' that we each think about each other."

Of course this doesn't work with non NFs... so our natural method of conflict resolution becomes self-neglect. It can be worked on, but its natural & difficult to control.