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  1. #11
    Supreme High Commander Andy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zenihita View Post
    But people of the same mbti type can be different enneagram types?

    Also I'm not sure if that would be derailing, but since the op had his questions answered, maybe I could intervene with my own related question: could anybody explicate a little bit, or maybe post a link to an explanation of how inferior functions manifest themselves?
    I understand inferior Te (for obvious reasons), but I have trouble understanding some other functions. Like inferior Si for instance, what is the weakness of ENFP?
    The inferior function tends to have an unsubtle nature, with only two speeds - stop or red hot overdrive. When in overdrive, it tends to embrace something with gusto, or reject it completely.

    Si is a prefernce for things that are absolute or unequivical in some way. For example a primary Si may well accept authority as being necessary to the way the world works, and thus obey it, but they will grade levels of authority and define how far it extends. An inferior Si may fail to do this. The authority may be seen as either absolute or repulsive. This can lead to episodes of hero worship or rebelion against authority. Extend this principal to other aspects of Si and see what you come up with.

  2. #12
    Supreme High Commander Andy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    I can be organized and effective.....For me, it has everything to do with how much I care. At work, I am very efficient and get annoyed when others are not. It's important to me not to waste time working anymore than I have to .

    That may be the "ESTJ business suit" spoken of for an INFP. I bet you'd be surprised to speak to an aggressive, blunt, direct person in a work situation and discover they are INFP, but it's just a mask they put on because they don't know how to use Fi Ne to get the job done. Problem is, the suit doesn't fit very well, and it's not very becoming.

    For me, weak Te also seems to come out in blowing things out of proportion. It's easy for me to lose perspective if something affects me emotionally.

    I also am normally more of the "big picture" person, unless it is something important to me, and then I get lost in the details and blow their importance out of proportion. The perfectionist part of me comes out.

    The "Fi Si" loop discussed in previous threads is a huge blind spot for INFPs also - getting stuck on what was and avoiding it so that you become fearful and withdrawn. The Ne Fi ability to see what isn't there but what could be (idealizing/criticizing everything), and then miss what is actually there can be an issue. Every function has a weakness.

    Yes, functions (inferior or otherwise) can display themselves in a variety of ways. Loosing sight of how big a problem is does conform to the idea of inferior Te, as inferiors struggle to "grade" things, if that makes sense to you.

  3. #13
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy View Post
    Yes, functions (inferior or otherwise) can display themselves in a variety of ways. Loosing sight of how big a problem is does conform to the idea of inferior Te, as inferiors struggle to "grade" things, if that makes sense to you.
    Yes....that's because INFPs use Fi to evaluate or "grade". Using Te to evaluate is the opposite of our first instinct. We measure based on a refined internal feeling of right and wrong, not an external measuring. That's not a weakness in itself, but simply a different perspective. However, sometimes evaluating based on empirical data is needed. However, an emotional INFP may abuse Te here: exaggerating or downplaying facts to support their feeling. They've allowed Fi to become clouded by emotion and then Te becomes the little evil sidekick, distorting everything even more.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  4. #14
    Member Zenihita's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy View Post
    The inferior function tends to have an unsubtle nature, with only two speeds - stop or red hot overdrive. When in overdrive, it tends to embrace something with gusto, or reject it completely.

    Si is a prefernce for things that are absolute or unequivical in some way. For example a primary Si may well accept authority as being necessary to the way the world works, and thus obey it, but they will grade levels of authority and define how far it extends. An inferior Si may fail to do this. The authority may be seen as either absolute or repulsive. This can lead to episodes of hero worship or rebelion against authority. Extend this principal to other aspects of Si and see what you come up with.
    Thanks, this makes sense. But the other aspects of Si are storing information, comparing current situation with similar ones and reviewing the past, and it's still a bit hard for me to imagine how to apply this principal to these.
    Does that mean that ENXP could sometimes focus too much on the past and at other times ignore any previous experience and assume nothing can be gained from analyzing it or something like that?

  5. #15
    Member Zenihita's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    I can be organized and effective.....For me, it has everything to do with how much I care. At work, I am very efficient and get annoyed when others are not. It's important to me not to waste time working anymore than I have to .

    That may be the "ESTJ business suit" spoken of for an INFP. I bet you'd be surprised to speak to an aggressive, blunt, direct person in a work situation and discover they are INFP, but it's just a mask they put on because they don't know how to use Fi Ne to get the job done. Problem is, the suit doesn't fit very well, and it's not very becoming.

    For me, weak Te also seems to come out in blowing things out of proportion. It's easy for me to lose perspective if something affects me emotionally.

    I also am normally more of the "big picture" person, unless it is something important to me, and then I get lost in the details and blow their importance out of proportion. The perfectionist part of me comes out.

    The "Fi Si" loop discussed in previous threads is a huge blind spot for INFPs also - getting stuck on what was and avoiding it so that you become fearful and withdrawn. The Ne Fi ability to see what isn't there but what could be (idealizing/criticizing everything), and then miss what is actually there can be an issue. Every function has a weakness.
    Thanks for explaining Fi Si and Ne Fi loops. Very true, but it wasn't easy for me to comprehend in terms of functions.

  6. #16
    Supreme High Commander Andy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zenihita View Post
    Thanks, this makes sense. But the other aspects of Si are storing information, comparing current situation with similar ones and reviewing the past, and it's still a bit hard for me to imagine how to apply this principal to these.
    Does that mean that ENXP could sometimes focus too much on the past and at other times ignore any previous experience and assume nothing can be gained from analyzing it or something like that?
    Becarefull of how you think of the functions. It looks like you are making the mistake of thinking of them as skills - there not. A function is a driving force to think or act in a particular way. These actions may well result in the development of skills, but the relationship is indirect. There are skills that ae often associated with a given function, but don't make the blunder of concluding they are the same thing.

    I'll give you an example: You associated Si with memory. To an extent this is true. As i mentioned, Si likes things that can be seen as absolutely true and without variation. This includes factual knowledge, such as the height of Mt. Everest, who wrote wind in the willows, the 3rd pesident of the USA, when someones birthday is. Whatever really, none of this things is going to change much. Because such absolute knowledge is important to ISJ they have a better chance of remembering it. This is the way in which Si can enhance memory, but other functions can have a similar effect. Te can demand the memorisation of facts that a person frequently has us for (when I was at school I memorised large numbers of equations that I needed for my A levels, despite having 8th place Si, as it ment I could work faster in exams). Fi or Fe might recommend that birthdays/anniversaries are remembered, to avoid causing offence or to help forge relationships.

    Si is backwards looking because it is only in the past that certainty exist, the future tendss to be rather hazy and indistinct. Something that has been shown to work before is favoured over the untride. Inferior Si will occationally over focus on something, either desiding that one thing was wonderfull beyond words or so terrible it must never be repeated when neither reacton is really justified. Thus the inferior Si user sometimes sees the past with excess nostalgia or vehemnet hatred. And yes, sometimes they just don't think about it much at all.

    Also remember that most people will only show some of the ways that their inferior function can manifest itself. My inferior is Se, and I have been known to over eat in sudden bursts. While at university I would sometimes go for weeks without touching chocolate at all, then buy a 12 pack of mars bars and eat them all in one day. Despite that, I've never been known to binge drink.

  7. #17
    Senior Member Neutralpov's Avatar
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    I think my feedback from friends is:
    1) a lack of realistic understanding of the negatives, cons of people in a healthy way.

    -several times I have been told by trusting friends, family..."I saw that about the person...they were needy, self-absorbed, not going to care.." and I never saw it in my enthusiasm and rose colored-glasses or thought I "shouldn't say that about someone.

    2) Inability to see things without comparison. I can sense something when it is placed next to another item and compare but freestanding I have a hard time evaluating things, relationships, choices. Or I see things when I step away to get space from it.
    Extroverted (E) 67.74% Introverted (I) 32.26%
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    Feeling (F) 51.61% Thinking (T) 48.39%
    Judging (J) 69.44% Perceiving (P) 30.56%

    Type 1 Perfectionism |||||||||||||||||||| 83%
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  8. #18
    Professional Trickster Esoteric Wench's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy View Post
    The inferior function tends to have an unsubtle nature, with only two speeds - stop or red hot overdrive. When in overdrive, it tends to embrace something with gusto, or reject it completely.
    This is the best articulation of the tertiary function I've ever read. And I think you hit the nail on the head.

  9. #19
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    Ne and Si can be blindspots for me, in a way.

    I suck at detailed preparation, a forte of SJs.

    I can use Ne, but when doing stuff, my Se focus can take over and I can get tunnel vision.

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