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  1. #41
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    Actually, I think it's more due to a loss of faith in the world. "They hurt me, it seems to be the thign to do, so if you cannot beat them, join them!"

    The moment an NF loses faith in the world, feels surrounded and overwhelmed by the pain out there, they tend to wall themselves in and/or lash out to to anyone who comes near, I think.
    I was totally with you till the last part, ew, any NF who becomes abusive to anybody else should be stripped of his or her NF badge, for realz.

    The worst I can see them "committing" after having lost their faith in the so-called world is their deliberately shutting out others, preferring to sink in their pain alone.

    Also, ALL ABUSE transfers as emotional abuse for an NF, duh, right... right?!!?!

    How can one, especially an NF, not take abuse as an assault against one's emotions, (amongst other things).
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

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  2. #42
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    I would flip this question on its head and say that NF's are more likely to classify an experience as abusive.

    For one thing, "abusive" is a term of evaluation. If someone were to be violent with me, I would say they were violent with me. I would not necessarily feel it important to define as abuse.

    Sensors may rely less on semantic judgments of life's contents and NT's may similarly view experiences from a more impersonal light.

    Similarly, I think NF's are more likely than other types to be sensitive to things like verbal abuse relative to NT's perhaps.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  3. #43
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    No.

    Do you know how NOT EASY IT IS, for one to come out of the closet so as to both admit to themselves and express to others that they have been in fact abused?!!?

    In some areas it might be fuzzy, but in most it is not, when someone close to you perpetually finds ways to put you down and keep you there, you are being abused, period.

    Since many people who frequent fora are kinda effed in the head, it wouldn't shock or surprise me to find out that many of us, or a disproportionately high percentage of us have in fact been, or are being, abused.
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  4. #44
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SillySapienne View Post
    No.

    Do you know how NOT EASY IT IS, for one to come out of the closet so as to both admit to themselves and express to others that they have been in fact abused?!!?

    In some areas it might be fuzzy, but in most it is not, when someone close to you perpetually finds ways to put you down and keep you there, you are being abused, period.

    Since many people who frequent fora are kinda effed in the head, it wouldn't shock or surprise me to find out that many of us, or a disproportionately high percentage of us have in fact been, or are being, abused.
    Why is it important to name things?

    For me personally, I would say that I experienced things growing up that other people would call abuse, but I don't see the point in defining the experience. I wouldn't want to make it bigger than it is, as big as it is. I don't see what it benefits me to define and create a story around it. To fetishize the suffering.

    Even in my adult life I have been in relationships where I let myself be hurt or even where I hurt myself. Or, even where I hurt others, but again why is it important to name and define?
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  5. #45
    Senior Member sciski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    I would appreciate suggestions for breaking away from it/avoiding it in future…without completely ceasing to trust anyone at all…surely there is a middle ground?
    You may have answered your own question with your post.

    Your friends wisely pointed out the negative nature of the relationship.

    So keep talking to your friends about what's going on in your life. They will provide a good outsider's perspective and also the support (or slap, as mentioned in later replies) that you may need.

  6. #46
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    Why is it important to name things?

    For me personally, I would say that I experienced things growing up that other people would call abuse, but I don't see the point in defining the experience. I wouldn't want to make it bigger than it is, as big as it is. I don't see what it benefits me to define and create a story around it. To fetishize the suffering.

    Even in my adult life I have been in relationships where I let myself be hurt or even where I hurt myself. Or, even where I hurt others, but again why is it important to name and define?
    To come to the realization that a parent of yours was or is a crazy unhealthy person who hurt you repeatedly, i.e. abused you, because they were the ones with problems, not you, is a very productive realization.

    Why?

    Because it can produce great art, the best kind of hurt, oodles and oodles of Empathy, and a resilient streak within that whispers or even screams that you won't become another statistic, that you can't and won't let that very special fucked up loved one ever win.

    The victim complex is a hard one to shake, though. So I can understand your resistance to the term/concept.

    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  7. #47
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SillySapienne View Post
    To come to the realization that a parent of yours was or is a crazy unhealthy person who hurt you repeatedly, i.e. abused you, because they were the ones with problems, not you, is a very productive realization.
    Yeah, I suppose. But, I guess I'm skeptical of people's ability to overturn such deeply held as feeling somehow to blame. I don't think we can change who we are. We can only change what we know and I don't know where the line is. So many things and experiences are fundamental that it seems nearly impossible to untangle. I think it's better to (in someone else's words) "strive for health".
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  8. #48
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    Synarch, I understand what you are saying in the NT Way;

    Some people get lemons and complain they didn't get oranges
    Some people get lemons and make lemonade.


    I think INTs do have a tendency to dislike Group A; they are usually not good for us as our emotion chips spend most of their time stuck on receive.

    We are impressed by people who overcome unfortunate circumstances; although we don't like to see people exclaim that what they have experienced is truely exceptional as usually we don't see this as the case.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    I’m getting the impression from my experience, and from those of other NF friends, that NFs may be particularly vulnerable to emotional abuse. By that I mean not only that emotional abuse may be particularly damaging to them, but that they may be more likely to find themselves in such situations or to stay in them even against their better judgment.
    Yes, yes, and YES.

    3 examples.

    A close friend I have, NF, stayed in a friendship with a man she was in love with who did not return the love for years...She remained devoted and faithful to him. He told her he could never love again. Yet after several years of her supporting him, spending a great deal of time and energy on him, He married another woman, not long after he met her. The woman he chose to marry was more than a decade older than my dear NF friend. This was all insulting on so many levels, and literally broke her heart. The worst part is that my NF friend told me that the man had said terribly rude, abusive things like, we should get you pregnant by me. In a lab, by in vitro... when in convos ppl mentioned how nurturing and loving and caring my friend was.

    A family member, NF, an older generation than mine, pretty much every single romantic relationship she was ever in was emotionally abusive. Some physical too. Terrible stuff, and yes, I hate to say it but I think she somehow attracted that...I've always tried to tell her, you don't deserve to be treated that way, but she seems to think she did deserve it. She also was easily seduced into relationships with men who were "bad" men and she wanted to love them all better. By bad, I mean drug dealers mostly... and all that goes w/that.

    An NF who has just recently come into my acquaintance in the past months told me she was involved in a relationship with a heroine addict who subsequently stalked her after she called it off for 6 months. She has a restraining order.

    Me
    I've felt myself slipping into emotionally abusive relationships on several occasions, but have fought like hell...I swear the only way I am in a healthy relationship now is bc I saw the importance and put it as a priority above all else.

    Why (imo)
    We as NFs want to see the best in everyone. We want to believe that the world is full of hurt people who, if just loved the right way, would be whole... we wanna change the world, with love. This doesn't have to be done via romantic relationships of course... sheesh, if I were to catalogue to you those emotionally abusive relationships of NFs that were of a nature anything but love/sex/romance, I would be writing for literally years.

    People pick up on this. They take advantage of it. If you want to avoid this sort of thing, you have to really be ahead of the game...

    Avoiding emotional abuse
    Additionally, I've found that the right kind of passionate relationship, the healthy one, when the other individual is healthy and you are too... that passion feels very different than an unhealthy relationship in which the other person NEEDS you emotionally. People NEEDING us emotionally feels like the best thing in the world...until the shit hits the fan.

    I've found I had to be less Idealistic. Not less of an Idealist, not lose my identity... just less idealistic.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    Similarly, I think NF's are more likely than other types to be sensitive to things like verbal abuse relative to NT's perhaps.
    Just a little FYI... According to David Keirsey NTs are more sensitive to a certain kind of abuse more than any other type grouping. Its physical abuse. Feel free to agree or disagree... the facts aren't important here. The point is that everyone has weaknesses, vulnerabilities... every type tends to have some more than others. And he is an NT himself.

    NTs have plenty of Achilles heels. The saddest part is, they are so good at hiding them when someone finds one (intentionally or otherwise) it usually initiates a huge inflicting drama inside them...bc they haven't built up the strengths required to deal.

    Not like NFs. NFs may be prone to emotional abuse, but we are so friggin' resilient.

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