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  1. #11
    Senior Member GirlFromMars's Avatar
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    Amargith speaks the truth. I will admit to getting like that sometimes. I'm getting better as I get older though. When I was younger esp. I would lash out A LOT, because I've been hurt a lot. It's like "f**k it, I'm sick of getting hurt, being nice doesn't get you anywhere" and you lash out at people becuase you expect them to hurt you. That's my experience anyways.

    Edit: Also, I've been told by a few people that when I am nasty (more so when I was a teenager!), I find the right thing to say that will really hurt someone, like I just know that one thing. And I gotta admit that's true. :| This post makes me sound horrible - it was more like that when I was going through my angsty teenage years (I am only 21 now mind)

    Also, I have been abused myself.

  2. #12
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    I'm not sure if it is a type-related issue or not, but this is my hypothesis about how some NFs might get stuck in such a dynamic. Unhealthy emotional interaction can have pitfalls for people who are invested in resolving emotional contexts and have a tendency to be more abstract and analytical about it. People who are especially pragmatic in their relationships are less likely to put up with destructive dynamics. The problem with looking at someone from the inside and in a more holistic manner is that all of their dysfunction and emotional baggage can often be understood within the context of their life. When you understand a detrimental dynamic they had with their mother as a child, it is easy to feel a kind of responsibility to undo that suffering while forgetting that once some of these things are imprinted on a person, they do remain throughout a lifetime. Having a deeper understanding of why someone is the way they are can increase a sense of tolerance. I suppose in viewing the entire picture this can also reveal the kinds of boundaries they need to recover. The process of creating boundaries can take longer if the person is bothering to go into an exhaustive analysis of the whole thing. In that way the NF can arrive at the same conclusion as someone viewing the present external dynamic, but it can take longer because they will first examine the whole history of it.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
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    I want to be just like my mother, even if she is bat-shit crazy.

  3. #13
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    I'm not sure if it is a type-related issue or not, but this is my hypothesis about how some NFs might get stuck in such a dynamic. Unhealthy emotional interaction can have pitfalls for people who are invested in resolving emotional contexts and have a tendency to be more abstract and analytical about it. People who are especially pragmatic in their relationships are less likely to put up with destructive dynamics. The problem with looking at someone from the inside and in a more holistic manner is that all of their dysfunction and emotional baggage can often be understood within the context of their life. When you understand a detrimental dynamic they had with their mother as a child, it is easy to feel a kind of responsibility to undo that suffering while forgetting that once some of these things are imprinted on a person, they do remain throughout a lifetime. Having a deeper understanding of why someone is the way they are can increase a sense of tolerance. I suppose in viewing the entire picture this can also reveal the kinds of boundaries they need to recover. The process of creating boundaries can take longer if the person is bothering to go into an exhaustive analysis of the whole thing. In that way the NF can arrive at the same conclusion as someone viewing the present external dynamic, but it can take longer because they will first examine the whole history of it.
    So in an undoubtedly over-simplified nutshell, you think it has something to do with making such a comprehensive effort to understand the person and how they became emotionally abusive, that you may give them the benefit of the doubt for too long? That is an interesting way to look at it which I hadn't quite thought of before...
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  4. #14
    Charting a course
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    So in an undoubtedly over-simplified nutshell, you think it has something to do with making such a comprehensive effort to understand the person and how they became emotionally abusive, that you may give them the benefit of the doubt for too long? That is an interesting way to look at it which I hadn't quite thought of before...

    Been there, done that.

    Not any f'in more.

  5. #15
    Senior Member GirlFromMars's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    So in an undoubtedly over-simplified nutshell, you think it has something to do with making such a comprehensive effort to understand the person and how they became emotionally abusive, that you may give them the benefit of the doubt for too long? That is an interesting way to look at it which I hadn't quite thought of before...
    Yep. I think that's spot on.

    My mum is an INFJ and has been abused again and again, esp. emotionally. It's because she wants to understand them, and indeed gives the benefit of the doubt. I totally get why she'd do that. i always want to understand people and why they got like they are too.

  6. #16
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    So in an undoubtedly over-simplified nutshell, you think it has something to do with making such a comprehensive effort to understand the person and how they became emotionally abusive, that you may give them the benefit of the doubt for too long? That is an interesting way to look at it which I hadn't quite thought of before...
    I appreciate you putting it a bit more succinctly. It has to do with giving them the benefit of the doubt too long because you can see more fully *why* they abuse (typically because during vulnerable stages of life they were abused). It makes it harder to get fed up and punish the person because you can be both angry for being hurt, but also feel sorry for the hurt they faced. I try to push back against that, but have seen NFs close to me focus on the "hurt child" aspect of their emotional abuser. I think sometimes it is better to look at the surface pragmatically, but that isn't always so easy. I try to function on two levels, one where my mind continues to analyze and create a framework for the person's behavior, and another level where I determine what is the likely best course of action based on the current situation. It can take deliberate practice to not get lost in the empathy of it.

    Edit: An emotionally abusive person is a deeply tragic scenario. The process of creating an abuser involves violating a human being during their innocence and vulnerability until there is nothing left of that, they catch the disease of cruelty, and then become guilty of imposing it on another. They keep reliving that violation and powerlessness and overcompensate by controlling and oppressing. There may be some element of choice, but cause and effect account for much of what shapes a person.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

    I want to be just like my mother, even if she is bat-shit crazy.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    I appreciate you putting it a bit more succinctly. It has to do with giving them the benefit of the doubt too long because you can see more fully *why* they abuse (typically because during vulnerable stages of life they were abused). It makes it harder to get fed up and punish the person because you can be both angry for being hurt, but also feel sorry for the hurt they faced.
    Yes I can't agree more with this. I have a bad habit of falling into tendency, and it certainly got my fingers burned a few times because of it.

  8. #18
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    What about NFs being able to recognize subtle warning signs and emotional abuse before other people and types? Couldn't that make them less vulnerable in a way, or do other factors override that?

  9. #19
    Senior Member Bamboo's Avatar
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    I knew an INFP in a clearly emotionally abusive relationship. She couldn't leave the guy, even though, as she was apt to frequently point out, he treated her like crap.

    It made very very very little sense to me. She seemed to want to rely on me to get her out of the relationship, and I did make an effort. I gathered information on emotional abuse, and tried to follow it. The hardest part was just listening without offering advice or trying to fix anything - the 'experts' explained that the emotionally abused really need someone to just listen to them.

    I ended up being there at weird hours of the night where she'd show up outside my house crying her eyes out, and she'd tell me the latest story.

    The 'relationship' got weird and I became resentful that she did so little to try and help herself. He broke up with her, and at that point I stopped being involved. I'm pretty sure she ended up running back to him, but I never looked into it.



    On a related note, she always rationalized staying with him by saying "he has glimmers of being a nice guy" and mentioning that he holds her really sweetly ... when he is asleep.

    So 95% of the time, he's a total jerk, but when he's not even concious, he's a really nice guy. Which justifies sticking with a guy that stalks you and gets drunk and calls you a "fucking whore"...in front of his entire family.

    Right.
    Don't know how much it'll bend til it breaks.

  10. #20
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    What about NFs being able to recognize subtle warning signs and emotional abuse before other people and types? Couldn't that make them less vulnerable in a way, or do other factors override that?
    This is what I was thinking when I finished the OP.

    I think I've been fortunate enough to avoid potentially negative people because of this. The NFs I know are more likely to do this than the other way around.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
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