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Thread: Handicapped Ni

  1. #21
    Badoom~ Skyward's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    This is kind of what I was thinking. Unhealthy Ni is what might be found in an ISJ. But in a Ni dom- and maybe even where Ni is aux- the problem is really more about how the Ni is used. A really healthy Ni in cahoots with an unhealthy Fe or Te is kind of like a sharp ax in the hands of a deranged person; the healthier the Ni, the more elaborate the delusion. Probably. I think.






    ^ I have a friend that seems like a Grade-A Prime example of spastic Ni use. I haven’t talked to her in a while because I couldn’t handle it. Anyway, she’d get angry about things and she refused to talk about it. She wouldn’t explain; she’d just say, “It’s just the way you are. It’s fine.” It got to the point where anything would set it off. I could ask for a pen, and she’d fly into some bizarre, incredibly vague and passive-aggressive ‘you-always-do-this’ rage. It got difficult to have so much as a single conversation with her without it being clear some kind of misunderstanding was taking place.

    Then when she was finally willing to explain: as far as she was concerned there were no misunderstandings, it was just me trying to twist facts around because I “didn’t get enough attention growing up” so I was “making stuff up to get attention” from her. I was dumbstruck by this, because anyone who knows in me IRL knows that I would rather be stabbed with an ice pick than have a pile of senseless drama unleashed on me. Yet every time I tried to find out why she was angry, she perceived “Z Buck creating drama because she needs attention” instead of “Z Buck picking up on my anger and wanting to understand what she did to make me angry”. I had no idea where she got this, but it wasn’t from actual experience with me. Bizarre conclusions like this happened *a lot*.

    My mom does things that seem kind of like an unhealthy use of Ni, too. This is something they have in common: they both seem to be entirely lacking in self-awareness (at times) and absolutely set on sticking to their story, no matter how absolutely ridiculous it sounds, how much they contradict themselves or how little basis it has in shared reality. I’ve taken to calling it Cornhol(Ni)o- when Ni is used in a completely spastic way- cuz it’s like dealing with Cornholeo (Beavis & Butthead). It’s like there some gaping hole in them, and they perceive these *magic* connections to make sense of the injustice they are feeling (the hole). When Cornhol(Ni)o takes over, they are completely impervious to reason or anyone’s take on reality but their own; and they are impervious to how unreasonable their own version appears to others.
    Great post! I think that when a person has a dysfunctional Ni, they don't know there's a problem. I can get into 'ruts' where I act similar to this, but only in my head, where everything about something frustrates me for no reason, or when I just 'don't like' someone even if it's only by some subtle thing in the way they walk or talk. Thankfully, I can realize when this is happening, the problem is that it's a slippery hole I've fallen into. It's tough to get out of it even if I know what's up. In order to get out, I need to get more objective about the person (Using Se), but since I'm an Introvert, I naturally place more emphasis or subjective feelings (my Ni).
    'Imperfection is beauty, madness is genius and its better to be absolutely ridiculous than absolutely boring.' - Marilyn Monroe

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  2. #22
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
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    It's occurred to me that the narrative of Henry James's The Turn Of the Screw is probably a really good example of what an unhealthy use of Ni looks like. It's been years since I read it- I read it before learning about Ni- but I'm fairly certain I'm remembering it accurately enough.

    Part of what makes this novel in particular a good example is that it isn't clear whether it really is a ghost story (which would mean that Ni connections are correct) or if the person is just paranoid; so it puts the reader in that same ambivalent position as the character who must choose between believing the 'obvious' connections or ignoring them.

    EDIT: by 'obvious' connections- I mean connections that seem obvious to the main character- but the main character is the only one who perceives them.
    Last edited by Z Buck McFate; 12-27-2009 at 02:51 PM. Reason: add explanation for use of "obvious"
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  3. #23
    man-made neptunesnet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skyward View Post
    Great post! I think that when a person has a dysfunctional Ni, they don't know there's a problem. I can get into 'ruts' where I act similar to this, but only in my head, where everything about something frustrates me for no reason, or when I just 'don't like' someone even if it's only by some subtle thing in the way they walk or talk.
    Hmm, I've always thought that was my Fi.

    Ni and Fi seem so similar sometimes.

  4. #24
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by neptunesnet View Post
    Hmm, I've always thought that was my Fi.

    Ni and Fi seem so similar sometimes.
    Whooooa, nope. Not even remotely close. If you think they're similar you need to do some basic reading:

    Introverted iNtuition

    Introverted Feeling

    That site has some good material to start with. Ni and Fi aren't even the same type of function--one is perception and the other is judgment. They do vastly different things and you probably don't even have access to both. The only thing they have in common at all is being introverted.


    Quote Originally Posted by neptunesnet View Post
    I don't mean to be difficult, but aren't most unhealthy iNtuiters "out of touch with reality"?

    Actually, I'm more often than not out of touch with reality even as a Fi-dom, but I don't consider myself unhealthy.
    This is related to introversion, not intuition. Introverted functions are defined according to the self and thus have no access to the external environment on their own. The functions you use to get in touch with the reality of the outer world are your extroverted ones.


    Quote Originally Posted by Billy View Post
    I figure unhealthy Ni would be someone who relies completely on their Ni without any fact checking to back it up, this would probably lead to excessive paranoia.
    Like, say, belief that liberalism is an evil international conspiracy to destroy the world? :yim_rolling_on_the_


    Quote Originally Posted by Skyward View Post
    Great post! I think that when a person has a dysfunctional Ni, they don't know there's a problem. I can get into 'ruts' where I act similar to this, but only in my head, where everything about something frustrates me for no reason, or when I just 'don't like' someone even if it's only by some subtle thing in the way they walk or talk. Thankfully, I can realize when this is happening, the problem is that it's a slippery hole I've fallen into. It's tough to get out of it even if I know what's up. In order to get out, I need to get more objective about the person (Using Se), but since I'm an Introvert, I naturally place more emphasis or subjective feelings (my Ni).
    This is true of any unbalanced function being used to the exclusion of others that might balance it. No one functional perspective has a balanced worldview on its own.


    And to the answer the OP:

    Ni constantly perceives a variety of different possible explanations and interpretations for things by seeing past what is immediately obvious and attempting to remove itself from any unconscious perceptual bias to see what is really going on.

    "Fi: Until I understand it in terms of empathy and how it relates to a living need that I might have, I don't see how I can relate to it."

    "Ni: Until I can separate myself from its built-in interpretations and see it from the outside, in terms of a framework that is independent of everything about it, I refuse to relate to it. You can't make me look--at least, not your way."

    A good example of unhealthy Ni in popular culture is Dale Gribble from King of the Hill. He sees a million different possible explanations for "what is really going on", but he lacks a strong extroverted function so he's out of touch with the real world and has no way of verifying the truth or falsehood of any of these explanations. In his mind, they might very well all be true. Who knows? This results in Dale's rampant conspiracy theories and, as others have pointed out, endless paranoia.

    Ni doesn't make decisions about truth value, though. That's left up to a judgment process. It only sees all the different possible explanations for the hidden meanings and dynamics behind things.

    The above linked site recommends that you do the following in order to better understand Ni:

    Imagine that you see a restaurant sign with fancy cursive white letters on a black background. What is the implied symbolism here? What did the creator of the sign want you to unconsciously assume based on the way this is designed? Say aloud to yourself, "I'm supposed to unconsciously assume that this is a fancy restaurant where high class people eat, but all I really see is a bunch of white curls on a black baseboard." Ni is responsible for interpreting the different ways this use of symbolism is supposed to imply different hidden meanings.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  5. #25
    Senior Member incubustribute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    This is related to introversion, not intuition. Introverted functions are defined according to the self and thus have no access to the external environment on their own. The functions you use to get in touch with the reality of the outer world are your extroverted ones.
    This is great! I have a hard time sometimes explaining to people that iNtuition has little to do with being day-dreamy or out of touch with reality. That kind of thing can be said about most Pi doms. Si and Ni are both usually out of touch with reality, inasmuch as the perception is rooted completely in the self and has no external value system. Introverted perception needs extroverted judgment in order to behave and function in a sane and productive manner in the same way that introverted judgment needs extroverted perception to keep its inner code of values more realistic.

  6. #26
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by incubustribute View Post
    This is great! I have a hard time sometimes explaining to people that iNtuition has little to do with being day-dreamy or out of touch with reality. That kind of thing can be said about most Pi doms. Si and Ni are both usually out of touch with reality, inasmuch as the perception is rooted completely in the self and has no external value system. Introverted perception needs extroverted judgment in order to behave and function in a sane and productive manner in the same way that introverted judgment needs extroverted perception to keep its inner code of values more realistic.
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  7. #27
    man-made neptunesnet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    Whooooa, nope. Not even remotely close. If you think they're similar you need to do some basic reading:
    I know they aren't the same. How I experience them, however, does seem similar sometimes.

    Or rather I can experience that same feeling Skyward gets from Ni with Fi. Thus, Ni and Fi come to the same end from different angles (...I guess).



    And thanks for answering my question.

  8. #28
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by neptunesnet View Post
    I know they aren't the same. How I experience them, however, does seem similar sometimes.

    Or rather I can experience that same feeling Skyward gets from Ni with Fi. Thus, Ni and Fi come to the same end from different angles (...I guess).



    And thanks for answering my question.
    That's kind of an incomplete explanation. Sometimes an INFJ's Ni+Fe can reach the same conclusions as an INFP's Fi+Ne, but INFJs are not actually motivated by Fi or Ne, nor are INFPs motivated by Ni or Fe (by their very definitions.)

    If you are an INFP, what you think you are experiencing as Ni is really a combination of Fi, Ne, Si and Te.

    I don't mean any offense here, but Ni and Fi are so different that it's really not possible to experience them in the same way. One takes in information and the other makes decisions with it, and they do this based on totally different priorities. If you think you're experiencing them in the same way, you probably have some misunderstandings as to the nature of how these functions work.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  9. #29
    man-made neptunesnet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    Sometimes an INFJ's Ni+Fe can reach the same conclusions as an INFP's Fi+Ne, but INFJs are not actually motivated by Fi or Ne, nor are INFPs motivated by Ni or Fe (by their very definitions.)
    That's what I meant to say.


    I don't mean any offense here, but Ni and Fi are so different that it's really not possible to experience them in the same way. One takes in information and the other makes decisions with it, and they do this based on totally different priorities. If you think you're experiencing them in the same way, you probably have some misunderstandings as to the nature of how these functions work.

    Yeah. The underlying purpose of this thread.

    I'm not necessarily experiencing Ni and Fi the same way as getting the same feeling with Fi as Skyward described with his Ni. I guess I didn't already say that? Or are you implying that there is NO WAY POSSIBLE for me a Fi-dom to experience the same feeling as a Ni-dom when we've come to the same conclusion about something? Or none of that ?
    Last edited by neptunesnet; 12-29-2009 at 06:12 PM.

  10. #30
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    Like, say, belief that liberalism is an evil international conspiracy to destroy the world? :yim_rolling_on_the_
    What paranoid person believes that?

    Ni constantly perceives a variety of different possible explanations and interpretations for things by seeing past what is immediately obvious and attempting to remove itself from any unconscious perceptual bias to see what is really going on.
    Yes.

    Someone who is not a big Ni user is a snorkeler, content with floating along the surface.
    Those with well-devloped Ni are scuba divers, who plumb the oceanic depths to seek what truths lie beneath the surface.

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