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[Fe] Fe fail in INFJs

Usehername

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Hey, INFJs, under what kinds of circumstances would you fail at Fe execution?

I'm trying to decide if I have an INFJ sx/sp, or if I have an INTJ sx/sp who executes Fe in situations where she feels comfortable but isn't able to harness it when she's less comfortable.
 

cafe

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If I don't know 'the rules' I can easily fail. If I'm uncomfortable and engaging in nervous chatter, sometimes stuff comes out of my mouth that gets me in trouble and I know it's happening, but I can't seem to stop it. My Fe is normally more in touch with the emotional atmosphere, so I can totally overlook common courtesies in regards to, say, offering someone a drink when they come to my house, etc. I'm completely lost in a kitchen full of other women as well.
 

cascadeco

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Hey, INFJs, under what kinds of circumstances would you fail at Fe execution?

How are you defining 'Fe execution'? i.e. what behaviors are you thinking of?

There are many elements of Fe (beyond social etiquette) so I want to be sure I'm understanding what you're speaking of before I give a response.
 

EcK

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I have a name: Lexicon !
 

Lauren Ashley

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How are you defining 'Fe execution'? i.e. what behaviors are you thinking of?

There are many elements of Fe (beyond social etiquette) so I want to be sure I'm understanding what you're speaking of before I give a response.
Ditto. I need to know this before I can respond.

I'm INFJ sx/sp, btw.
 

Usehername

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Well, the specific situation is this:

Usehername forms very close relationship with one of her young profs who is new to the city, then prof has baby and goes on mat leave and Usehername changes labels from former student to friend. We'd been emailing about stuff for a long while but Monday was the first time I went over to her home.

When she opened the door she started off with a minor Fe hosting fail (walked to her living room and sat down while I needed to de-winterize clothing because it was -32*C), which didn't bother me but seemed to throw off her confidence, which led to stop/start/stop/start small talk because she was nervous, etc.

I've been dealing with considerable (unrelated) stress, which she knew from our emails, so I'm wondering how much my emotional stoicism, a safety feature to endure the present stress, magnified her initial nerves. Though my words were kind, she told me at the end that I was "a hard read," and pretty much admitted to wondering if I thought she was worth the effort to come visit with (not in a guilt-tripping way, but simply "I know you liked me before I had my baby when I was your prof, but you are such a stoic I really couldn't get a read off of you today and I don't know if you had a good time or if you just said you did").

How much of this is related to me, i.e., the actions that I can take to make her feel more comfortable, and how much of this is just her own feelings she needs to sort through?
 

cascadeco

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^ Interesting!

I will say I think I can be oblivious at times to social etiquette - i.e. your coat example. Or things like offering drinks, or the like. Sometimes I'm quite on top of that stuff, but other times I'm just distracted or it's not even something I focus much attention on or place much importance on in the first place so I thus don't think about it, or think about it late after the person's holding their coat or looking around or something. :)

To the rest of your example, I will say that I can be pretty sensitive to non-verbal body language from others. If the other person seems uncomfortable, then I in turn will likely become uncomfortable or at least more insecure. :blush: Or if the other person seems bored or isn't fully present, I might not know what to do or might think they don't want to be there. I'm fairly certain this is why I tend to hit it off a lot easier with other Fe's (and 'read' them easier) than with Fi's; because I simply can't 'read' Fi's or Fi's often seem so nonchalant or mellow or apathetic that I start thinking they don't even want to be there. It just means it's not as natural to me, and might take longer for both of us to relax/warm up, and 'get' each other.
 
P

Phantonym

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When it comes to hosting, my biggest Fe fails happen when my guests come unannounced. I usually feel ao annoyed by that so I might not even bother hiding it that much and that influences me a lot, I don't notice the things I should be doing to make them comfortable. When my privacy is suddenly interrupted, although I might like the people visiting, I do have certain rules about not visiting me when uninvited or without previous engagement :steam:

So, this is all about feeling comfortable in certain situation in order for my Fe to have full power.

I'm an INFJ 4w5 sp/so


To the rest of your example, I will say that I can be pretty sensitive to non-verbal body language from others. If the other person seems uncomfortable, then I in turn will likely become uncomfortable or at least more insecure. :blush: Or if the other person seems bored or isn't fully present, I might not know what to do or might think they don't want to be there.

I agree with this. I pick up the little clues from other people or just have a bad vibe about the situation and that makes me want to shut down so that the whole ordeal would go by faster or more tolerably.
 

Thalassa

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Is this a thread about Billy? :coffee:
 

cafe

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I unfortunately experience this dynamic a lot when attempting to develop a friendship with someone who is very introverted, even if I like them very much. Somehow it's just awkward.
 

BlueSprout

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I think I've witnessed Fe fail in some INFJs, but it's hard for me to tell whether it's really a failure or not.

INFJ interactive Fe just reads like politeness and sympathy to me, which can seem superficial and fake in some situations, but maybe I haven't been close enough to any to experience the depth of compassion that Fe has to offer. In some situations, their ability to reach a person seemed to have been hampered by awkwardness and emotional distance (and I'm not the only one to observe this). I'm curious to know how INFJs would interpret this.

Then again,

I unfortunately experience this dynamic a lot when attempting to develop a friendship with someone who is very introverted, even if I like them very much. Somehow it's just awkward.

It may be my awkwardness or quietness that creates the wrong conditions when I have been on the receiving end of Fe. When I've seen INFJs get really emotionally engaged, it's been more about broader injustices and pet causes than about any individual. Maybe this is how it works if you aren't that close to one? I don't doubt that they are insightful with Ni (I've been shocked by their abilities to see through me and others), but sometimes I don't understand how Fe really works for them interpersonally. Is it that Ni is so powerful that distance between them and the people they understand needs to be established?
 

JustHer

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I've not witnessed Fe fail in INFJs but I've definitely witnessed Fe denial in them!
 

cascadeco

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INFJ interactive Fe just reads like politeness and sympathy to me, which can seem superficial and fake in some situations, but maybe I haven't been close enough to any to experience the depth of compassion that Fe has to offer. In some situations, their ability to reach a person seemed to have been hampered by awkwardness and emotional distance (and I'm not the only one to observe this). I'm curious to know how INFJs would interpret this.

I am definitely not speaking for other INFJ's, as I think this will vary.

I can understand Fe reading like politeness and sympathy, because frankly I AM much of the time just trying and wanting to be respectful of others. My own needs are more fluid/less important sometimes, and especially in social interactions, I'll adjust my method of communication depending on who I'm interacting with - just because my method of communication isn't a defining element for me to begin with; if anything, it's the tendency to adjust that IS the defining element. :) As for awkwardness, yeah, I can be totally socially awkward/inept; it's tied to introversion as well as the Ni I think. And tied to what I wrote in my first post on here, the fluidity/confidence I have is hugely dependent on the other person, and how the dynamic itself operates. If the other person is more withdrawn, I have a harder time engaging. If the other person is more animated and confident, I play off that really well. Etc. Also, I've written elsewhere on here that just because I don't personally feel I'll ever connect deeply with someone else, doesn't mean I don't think the person deserves to be treated well and it's not like I don't still want to try to understand them better or lack the curiosity, or at least desire to appreciate them/connect with them on whatever level I can appreciate them on.

Emotional distance for me could be explained in two ways - 1. I am only really vulnerable/open with those I really want to be open with, trust, want to invest in, and see a deep relationship potential with, and 2. Connecting with people emotionally isn't my natural language anyway. This is probably an Ni/Fi difference. My prime mode isn't necessarily connecting on this level, and I'm not necessarily aiming for that kind of interaction anyway. I'm more interested in topics, issues, philosophy, and the like...more intellectual stuff, not necessarily deeply personal...so yeah, for me I would say I'm not naturally attuned/proficient in honing in on an emotional wavelength. I think I can be really good at making people feel appreciated and liked, but that doesn't necessarily translate into a deep emotional bond in the sense that I think dom-Fi's appreciate and naturally go towards. I like *understanding* people and why they do things, but that doesn't necessarily mean I'm going to need or want to let down my emotional walls with everyone as a means of connecting, or I even want to go there.

(edit: good lord, I used my quota of 'necessarily's' for the rest of the week. ;))



It may be my awkwardness or quietness that creates the wrong conditions when I have been on the receiving end of Fe. When I've seen INFJs get really emotionally engaged, it's been more about broader injustices and pet causes than about any individual.

Yeah, for myself, I tend to be more engaged/animated when talking about the larger context, culture, society, and the like. Not so much on the individual level, although with people I'm really close to the emotional engagement applies to those individuals as well.
 

Usehername

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Thanks for weighing in, people. Cascade, Cafe, Sky, Jane, your comments were good to read. :)

I'm sure some of it was just the dramatic change in circumstances and us both being Js who are more comfortable with predictability--pretty much everything changed since the last IRL conversation we had in her office while she was pregnant. We had a very comfortable and enjoyable chat for a good 20 minutes after the initial discomfort and before the baby woke, but I could tell at the beginning and end that she was nervous, and I'm sure my stoicism amplified that.
She was also stressed that I watched her while she was trying to comfort her fussy infant because of the lack of control she had over the baby's fussiness and because it interrupted our chatting. She always talks about how pregnancy/mothering is the biggest challenge ever to her Type A control freak self.

She was also soo quick to talk about her baby's weight (her baby is not skinny but srsly it's 3mos old--bodies are not supposed to be so perfectly proportioned at that age!), her hair falling out (it looked perfectly normal to me), her weight (she was not carrying anything extra, esp. for a new mom)... as if those things were the metaphorical elephant in the room (I never gave any of those things a second of my brain's time but they were clearly things she needed to address). I should also add that she's incredibly put-together and professional and calm and reasonable, and she's showing insecurities because she trusts me--I'm quite sure she'd just put up an emotional blockade to someone she didn't trust and BS as if everything was grand.

Finally, I'm wondering if she actually is an INTJ (she tested as INTJ but hates the idea of putting people in boxes so she won't read the INFJ description). I was pretty sure she was an NF though, but maybe she's just a feeling-y INTJ like me.
 

entropie

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From my perspective I have to say INFJs always fail at Fe, but then again they lack Ne and Si. I was for a time more into the socionics descrption of the infj, which gives them Fi but nowadays I think their Fe is a mixture of Ni and Fe, like in the entp the Ti can come off as Te due to a mixture off Ne and Ti.

Wow i cant believe i just wrote that lol
 

Tiltyred

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Is it possible she's just more comfortable on line than in person?

What did you expect from her when you were de-winterizing? (just curious)

What was her house like? Is she a neat freak?
 

Usehername

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Is it possible she's just more comfortable on line than in person?

What did you expect from her when you were de-winterizing? (just curious)

What was her house like? Is she a neat freak?

I'm sure she's more comfortable online but she's also opened up a lot about herself in her office when I'd go to visit.

I didn't have any expectations while de-winterizing, but I could see that she forgot that it would take me a minute so she sat there on her couch probably thinking in her mind, dammit, oops.

Her house had soo much character. Every room was carefully and eclectically decorated. It was the kind of perfect-clean that an xNxJ would do for a first time guest (very clean and orderly where it matters, but she didn't care about the baby toys strewn along the basement like an xSxJ would for a first-time guest).
 

Tiltyred

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Have you met her husband?
 

Usehername

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Only for 90 seconds or so. IxFJ sweetheart. I've met her mom and chatted with her for a little bit; her mom is a definite IxTx.
 
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