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  1. #21
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    I'm not picking up on anything that seems decidedly un-INFJ, Usehername, and I could imagine myself acting similarly or saying similar things (except for actually asking in the end if it was worth your visiting...but my point is that even though I can't relate to the specifics of what she said, no doubt when I'm nervous I say a few equally pointless things simply because I'm anxious). I don't know enough INTJ's to comment on how well she fits a feel-y INTJ (), but I do know there can be a lot of similarities between the two INxJ's, and several INFJ's on this forum have tested as INTJ in the past, or still do.
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

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  2. #22
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    I don't get INFJ out of it.

  3. #23
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    Thanks guys.

    I just want her to not feel judged by me (hence the wondering more specifically about type to know the motives of that feeling), I guess that's both hers and mine to work out on both of our ends.

    @Cascade: she only said "you're a hard read," she didn't actually say "am I worth your while," she just knew how much I had on my plate and was dealing with, so it was more like she didn't want to be on my huge list of tasks to get through, she wanted to be someone I wanted to spend time with.
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
    C.S. Lewis

  4. #24
    Crazy Diamond Billy's Avatar
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    Something interesting a friend wrote about how Fe is differnt for INFJs and such then others.
    ***********

    Something to note about the descriptions of Fi, and especially Fe...

    Most of the 'research' done on these two functions comes through the filter of S types, which skews the perspective for these functions toward Se and Si.

    The NFP population is roughly 10%, so there is a fair amount of Fi input when paired with Ne, but most Fi dominant (and secondary) users are SFPs. Keep that in mind when considering the descriptions of Fi. There is usually a bias toward Se thinking when it is presented, but from what I've read Fi is fairly well represented as a unique function unto itself.

    However, the NFJ population is less than 2%, while the SFJ population is close to 25%. The vast majority of input on the subject of Fe comes from Si users. The notions that Fe tends toward politenesses, social contract, and emotional currency come from this pairing of Fe with Si - which is a very 'conventional' function. Si likes tradtion, repitition, and rote. For an Si user, Fe manifests through such practices.

    However, Ni users are nearly the exact opposite. We have little use for tradtion, repitition, and rote. We see the hidden patterns, focus on the unknown, and are looking to the future so intently we often fail to notice the present. Ni and Fe users do not focus nearly as heavily on social ritual as we do the actual needs of other individuals.

    For example, SFJs prefer to engage in "Good morning, <person's name>. How are you today?" "I am fine. How are you, <person's name>?" "very good, thank you (even if they're not). How did <remembered detail that was of concern to the person they're talking to> go?" "Quite well, thank you. How is <returned detail of concern to the person they're talking to> going?" etc. The SFJs are showing concern for one another by walking through an expected social rote, asking about details of concern to the person they are speaking to show that they care (this is an example of social currency), while minimizing (or outright denying) their own hardships so as to not upset others.

    Meanwhile, NFJs tend to prefer to handle the same situation differently. Before any words are exchanged, the NFJs are reading each other for the answers to the following - How is the other person feeling? Are they alright? Is there anything to be concerned about? Are they busy? What is the best way to approach them at this moment? We're amazingly adept at detecting these things in others, and in exponential proportion to how well we know the person in question. Once we determine this, our social interaction follows suit, but is always situational to the factors we've determined. For example, if we determine someone is busy, we smile at them and leave them to their attention. If we see that someone is in need of warmth, we show it to them in as sincere a way as we can, which only includes social conventions when we know that person needs them.

    Fe's motivations are the same - concern for and caring about others -, regardless if it is paired with Si or Ni. However, it manifests very differently because of the perspectives of Si or Ni.

    But, there is another aspect to Fe that is lost in most of the descriptions I've read...

    More than a concern for others, which is just a side effect, the true nature of Fe is that Fe is philosophical reasoning. (While Fi is abstract reasoning.)

    Fe is right brained reasoning, with an external focus. (Where Fi is right brained reasoning with an internal focus.)

    Fe is the clear sense of knowing how you feel things should be, and what others want. Fe feels that this should be this way, and that should be that way. (Fi is a clear sense of how you feel you should be, and what you want for yourself.)

    Fe is the sense of right and wrong. (Where as Fi is the sense of good and bad.)
    Ground control to Major Tom

  5. #25
    Revelation Lauren Ashley's Avatar
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    ^I like that description, Billy.

    It describes well how I use Fe. Rather than the social etiquette/niceties descriptions I usually see to describe Fe.

  6. #26
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    It's likely that her fearing judgment or feeling judged is not particular to you, so I'm not sure there is anything you can do about it. Maybe that is just part of her personality and it will show itself from time to time despite any reassurances.

  7. #27
    Crazy Diamond Billy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lauren Ashley View Post
    ^I like that description, Billy.

    It describes well how I use Fe. Rather than the social etiquette/niceties descriptions I usually see to describe Fe.
    I cant take credit, a friend of mine on the INFJ forum wrote it, he is quite intelligent and I agree with you.

    Fe for NFs has nothing to do with societal etiquette.
    Ground control to Major Tom

  8. #28
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy View Post

    Meanwhile, NFJs tend to prefer to handle the same situation differently. Before any words are exchanged, the NFJs are reading each other for the answers to the following - How is the other person feeling? Are they alright? Is there anything to be concerned about? Are they busy? What is the best way to approach them at this moment? We're amazingly adept at detecting these things in others, and in exponential proportion to how well we know the person in question. Once we determine this, our social interaction follows suit, but is always situational to the factors we've determined. For example, if we determine someone is busy, we smile at them and leave them to their attention. If we see that someone is in need of warmth, we show it to them in as sincere a way as we can, which only includes social conventions when we know that person needs them.
    I think the bolded is why it's tougher initially, and especially when there aren't many cues to be read, or when the signals are mixed.

    Anyway, I've always felt Fe is more slanted - in literature as well as on the forums - towards a tie with Si. That's why I tend to be bothered when people think of Fe as pure social etiquette, because while that's an element of it, it isn't applicable in nearly the same way for the NFJ's as it is for the SFJ's (especially ESFJ's). And, it's why on cognitive functions tests my Fe was always pretty darn low...because the tests also tend to slant towards the more superficial elements of Fe, and the more extroverted, hostessing elements to boot.
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

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  9. #29
    Crazy Diamond Billy's Avatar
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    Yes my INFJ children! Come forth and take back our version of Fe from the stereotypical ties everyone hoists upon us!
    Ground control to Major Tom

  10. #30
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Oh man...the Ni-Ti INFJs are an interesting corollary to the more commonly discussed Ni-Fi INTJs. And I think they have an even harder time dealing with the outside world.

    I know one Ni-Ti INFJ and it genuinely pains me to see how passionately he wants to connect with others through Fe, but something blocks him from doing it to his fullest potential. Even worse is that as an Ni dom, he's totally aware of that potential and how much he's missing out on. It's really upsetting, honestly.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

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