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  1. #51
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    I don't know if this is related..
    But ..

    We do not teach our children to lie.. But by the time a child is 2-3 years old they already know how to do it.
    We have to teach our children morality, not the other way around.

    What is the morality of someone who has grown up without any other human contact?

    In that sense, Violaine is correct when she says; Someones relationship skills are what is questionable.. And skills are there to be honed and can always improve.

  2. #52
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arclight View Post
    We all have a dark side.. to deny it is to be incomplete.
    I haven't cheated before, but I'll agree with you on that.

  3. #53
    violaine
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    I hear what you are saying and that you are on your own journey. In my mind, a relationship does mean one has to compromise complete freedom though, it's just what happens when two people knit their lives together. The journey is taken in tandem.

    I don't believe everyone is ethically/morally flexible from moment to moment. A person often thinks a certain way and then acts accordingly when the circumstances present themselves. I don't think a person has to embrace all of their darker urges to be complete. And certainly anyone doing that has no right to do so without their partner's knowledge, imo.

    But I guess that is what open relationships are for!

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by violaine View Post
    I hear what you are saying and that you are on your own journey. In my mind, a relationship does mean one has to compromise complete freedom though, it's just what happens when two people knit their lives together. The journey is taken in tandem.

    I don't believe everyone is ethically/morally flexible from moment to moment. A person often thinks a certain way and then acts accordingly when the circumstances present themselves. I don't think a person has to embrace all of their darker urges to be complete. And certainly anyone doing that has no right to do so without their partner's knowledge, imo.

    But I guess that is what open relationships are for!
    OH God No!! I did not mean we must embrace our dark side..
    I mean we cannot deny it either.

    I will try to explain..

    Right now I have no need to steal a loaf of bread. I have enough money to feed myself.
    Because there is no need, my morality will not allow me to steal a loaf a bread, just because, I can.
    "Can" is the operative word here.
    I can cheat or steal.. even if I don't or won't.
    Now.. I have no money .. and I haven't eaten in 3 days and there is loaf of bread there that is not mine.. and I can take it.
    My morality is going to change because my need has changed.
    Now you can argue that circumstances forced you to step outside your moral comfort zone, and you would be correct.
    But comfort is as subjective as morality itself.. and that would actually prove my point.
    I can do something. In the right instance, I will do that something.
    That means behavior is not static, but exists on a sliding scale.
    More like the Ennagram than MBTI..
    A type6 at stage nine ascension, behaves very different than one at, stage one descent.
    But they are both me, and both exist at all times, even if they contradict each other.

  5. #55
    violaine
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    ^Heh, I guess I didn't quite hear what you were saying then.

    Yes, it's true that people are capable of a range of behaviors. Of course. I just don't really think there are dire circumstances in most people's relationships when someone cheats. They usually have the option to walk away from their partner first at the very least. I guess I'm focusing more on the chinks in the armor that lead to cheating, that in most circumstances there is a conscious choice made, I think most people who cheat aren't very vigilant with themselves at some point.

    (Ok, I'm off for a walk now!)

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfmaiden14 View Post
    Especially now, I don't often find people attractive, so when I do love someone, all the attention goes to him. I rarely even notice other guys when someone really has my heart.
    I'm pretty much the same. Of course I do notice other people around me, but it's on a completely platonic level when I'm romantically attached with someone. Nobody else has such a presence in my mind than that person.

    I think I do understand how easy it would actually be to act on impulse and cheat on your SO when you're not being aware of all the repercussions of that kind of behaviour. I try to be aware of my feelings all the time, and take other people's feelings into consideration as well. I honestly cannot say what I would do if I ended up in a situation where cheating would be an actual possibility. Of course there is a part of me that would like to say that it would never happen, but since I've never been in that kind of situation before, there could be a number of reasons why people actually do take that option, so I can't be sure of anything. All I know is that loyalty, honestly and integrity have a lot of significance in my life, and I can only hope that my mind will never be so clouded as to forget them.

  7. #57
    ..... Intricate Mystic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arclight View Post
    OH God No!! I did not mean we must embrace our dark side..
    I mean we cannot deny it either.

    I will try to explain..

    Right now I have no need to steal a loaf of bread. I have enough money to feed myself.
    Because there is no need, my morality will not allow me to steal a loaf a bread, just because, I can.
    "Can" is the operative word here.
    I can cheat or steal.. even if I don't or won't.
    Now.. I have no money .. and I haven't eaten in 3 days and there is loaf of bread there that is not mine.. and I can take it.
    My morality is going to change because my need has changed.
    Now you can argue that circumstances forced you to step outside your moral comfort zone, and you would be correct.
    But comfort is as subjective as morality itself.. and that would actually prove my point.
    I can do something. In the right instance, I will do that something.
    That means behavior is not static, but exists on a sliding scale.
    More like the Enneagram than MBTI..
    A type6 at stage nine ascension, behaves very different than one at, stage one descent.
    But they are both me, and both exist at all times, even if they contradict each other.
    This is a very interesting view of morality that is quite in contrast to the Judeo-Christian view that is prevalent in Western society. I wonder if your ideas can be tied to a particular school of philosophy, or if it is an original theory of yours?

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Intricate Mystic View Post
    This is a very interesting view of morality that is quite in contrast to the Judeo-Christian view that is prevalent in Western society. I wonder if your ideas can be tied to a particular school of philosophy, or if it is an original theory of yours?
    Umm...I am pretty sure Nietzsche (just for one) beat Arclight to the punch there. LOL.

  9. #59
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    I never finished my grade 10..(And I have gone to college I know.. Mature student thing) I know many of my ideas are popular schools of thought already.. But I have no formal or amateur education in Philosophy.

    Mostly whatever conclusion I come to is through a mix of ideas, observation, and experience. I am sure I pick up little bits here and there from pop media and other people, and a lot of mulling and pondering.

    In this particular case my idea of the fluidity of morality is based off of how long it I feel it would take for civil behavior to deteriorate if the system were to break down and show no real chance of recovery, anytime soon thereafter.

    I.M. is trying to encourage me to go to University and take Philosophy since I am so naturally interested in it's concepts, whether I am aware of their origins or not.. She is sweet

  10. #60
    Undisciplined Starry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arclight View Post
    I never finished my grade 10..(And I have gone to college I know.. Mature student thing) I know many of my ideas are popular schools of thought already.. But I have no formal or amateur education in Philosophy.

    Mostly whatever conclusion I come to is through a mix of ideas, observation, and experience. I am sure I pick up little bits here and there from pop media and other people, and a lot of mulling and pondering.

    In this particular case my idea of the fluidity of morality is based off of how long it I feel it would take for civil behavior to deteriorate if the system were to break down and show no real chance of recovery, anytime soon thereafter.

    I.M. is trying to encourage me to go to University and take Philosophy since I am so naturally interested in it's concepts, whether I am aware of their origins or not.. She is sweet
    Wasn’t trying to imply you were attempting to take Nietzsche’s ideas and present them as your own. And I certainly was unable to pick-up on the fact that IM was merely trying to encourage you to pursue schooling in Philosophy.

    I merely got a giggle from the notion that you were possibly presenting a whole new school of philosophical thought...which is how it was put forth. And all I could see was Absolutism vs Relativism…or Objective Morality vs Subjective Morality. Basically the sum total of all post-modern thinking. So…I laugh a lot. No big.

    You can’t exist in modern society and not be influenced by Nietzsche. It is just how it is. You do not even need to know he existed…and if you are living today…his thoughts will be yours.

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