[ENFJ] ENFJ and True Friendships

[Malkavia]

Ok ENFJs,

How closed up are you? Sure you have tons of friends because your charming and charismatic, but how many FRIENDS do you have? You know, the ones that are like family to you and you would stand by forever.

I admit that I have tons of normal friendships and I only have one or two truly deep, incredible friendships. I thought I was pretty bad about letting people see the real me but the ENFJs Ive met have been way worse.

The one Im closest to seems like an open book, but its a trick. He has tons of opinions which fools people into thinking he is talking about himself, when in actuality he never opens up about personal things.

So what about you other ENFJs?

 

[Domino]

My ENFP twin is so open about herself (not talkative about herself, which is different) that it causes me to wince sometimes, not because she's unreasonable or ridiculous, but because she's naturally able to live so close to the surface of things that I can't even begin to imagine living that way. Her confessional nature, to me, seems so strong and adaptive, while I maintain the borders of my fortifications with strict discipline. I'm not false with people or "acting", but I do find I put some sort of space between me and others.

I have a lot of friendly acquaintances, a narrow spectrum of close friends, then only a handful of very close friends. And then there's my twin, who's the closest anyone's ever gotten to me. She knows things about me that I would be mortified if anyone knew. I don't know why I can't get out with myself like she can, but the phenomenon you speak of isn't a figment of your imagination. It's very real and a constant daily occurrence.

The only way I can see defeating this mechanism is to have a natural, almost ambush capacity to catch me with my pants down, so to speak. Even then, I may not go without a fight.

My twin says my wedding will resemble a love kumite. lol Dear me. How true.

 

[Malkavia]

How I ironic, my ENFJ best friend has a twin. He's INTJ and I talked to him one day about the ENFJ. His twin said he never opens up to him about anything - especially when its about the ENFJs flaws or fears. I found this odd because they are twins, get along very well, and I would consider them very close.

Is there a way that you CAN get close to an ENFJ and let them know that its ok to put their guard down? I would assume it would just take time, but these twins have been together for 21 years

 

[Domino]

I can be as open with my sister as I am because a very long time ago we'd decided that pulling punches and being as diplomatic as possible in spats was our prime goal - like not using an argument as an excuse to hit below the belt. When it comes down to it, I can trust Jaye not to hurt me, or to try to hurt me, when I'm in a vulnerable state, and vice versa. It's very very easy to crush me once my walls have been breached, so I feel like they are there for a reason - to shield me from unscrupulous or diseased people. Jaye is soft on the outside, but if you bite down, you'll break your teeth.

My level of openness with her has spoiled me - I don't have the same transparency with others, nor do I know many people with that level of transparency at ALL.

She doesn't judge me. Not to say that we haven't had our bloody rows, but the ultimate goal is to not do damage. It's to sort out whatever is wrong and move on. Then again, it's difficult being cloaked with someone who literally came into being at the same moment I did.

I have an ENFJ male friend and I know it's hard for him to lower his shields, even around people he knows and likes.

Male twins may have more difficulty (male vs female) due to social conditioning.

 

[Unkindloving]

I have about 4 of those friends, but i open up to all of them in different ways face-to-face.
It's also why i have a livejournal that they have access to. I will easily open up there and welcome questioning from them or deducing their own opinions, but i prefer not to bring everything about myself to the table with people who won't really grasp my intensity or thoughts.
What it's come down to in my life is not who completely understands me, but who can accept me. That is only a little more feasible. If i come across some real understanding then i view that as my bonus round and i've only come across one person who gets it so far.

It takes reassurance and interest to keep us going, i think. I would imagine that a lot of ENFJ's have felt isolated because of their inner-workings for years and that other people haven't embraced it about them.
Also, i am an open book, but i fail to share my fears and emotions often (unless i am in a certain mood) because my main incentive isn't to 'burden' other people with myself, but to take their burdens into consideration. I frequently use my own as examples, but i only look at them as examples, typically detaching the emotional/personal aspects.

 

[Robert165]

Ok ENFJs,

How closed up are you? Sure you have tons of friends because your charming and charismatic, but how many FRIENDS do you have? You know, the ones that are like family to you and you would stand by forever.

I admit that I have tons of normal friendships and I only have one or two truly deep, incredible friendships. I thought I was pretty bad about letting people see the real me but the ENFJs Ive met have been way worse.

The one Im closest to seems like an open book, but its a trick. He has tons of opinions which fools people into thinking he is talking about himself, when in actuality he never opens up about personal things.

So what about you other ENFJs?

dont have many friends
2 very close freinds and a few other "people i know"
thats largely due to mental illness, bipolar
i am friendly
but being unemployed and a bitt "odd" makes it hard to make freinds

used to have more freinds in the past i guess, when i was more active
also used to be very "open"
as i grow older i get more private

 

[Domino]

I have about 4 of those friends, but i open up to all of them in different ways face-to-face.
It's also why i have a livejournal that they have access to. I will easily open up there and welcome questioning from them or deducing their own opinions, but i prefer not to bring everything about myself to the table with people who won't really grasp my intensity or thoughts.
What it's come down to in my life is not who completely understands me, but who can accept me. That is only a little more feasible. If i come across some real understanding then i view that as my bonus round and i've only come across one person who gets it so far.

It takes reassurance and interest to keep us going, i think. I would imagine that a lot of ENFJ's have felt isolated because of their inner-workings for years and that other people haven't embraced it about them.
Also, i am an open book, but i fail to share my fears and emotions often (unless i am in a certain mood) because my main incentive isn't to 'burden' other people with myself, but to take their burdens into consideration. I frequently use my own as examples, but i only look at them as examples, typically detaching the emotional/personal aspects.

+1

Protean said something not long ago about ENFJs having "waiting rooms" where everyone can party down and mingle and get to know the group and the host, but then there's the door marked "Private" where only a few from the waiting room are admitted. She said something too about everything behind that door being what we really are at our core, the good, the bad and the ugly. We share that need for personal privacy with INFJs.

Any attempt to push past that door without my permission gets met with open hostility and eviction from the premises. I've had guys try that maneuver with me and then wondered why I burned their ship to the waterline.

I keep my inner world sequestered because I realized that it wouldn't live for long in the "real world" without my protection, and also because I had grown wary (and disheartened, even angered) by being constantly told to "calm down" or rein myself in even when I wasn't being "wild". I took that to mean that my intensity was a bad thing so I tried to hide it or contain it, but it only taught me to withdraw from Outsiders, like I couldn't trust them. I take harsh criticism personally (i.e. I internalize it) even the bad stuff that has no true bearing on me as a person (i.e. is malignant and only meant to harm me), so I have to control my borders tightly.

My intensity has been treated as problematic. Not that I'm going to alter myself. It is what it is.

 

[Little Linguist]

Ok ENFJs,

How closed up are you? Sure you have tons of friends because your charming and charismatic, but how many FRIENDS do you have? You know, the ones that are like family to you and you would stand by forever.

I admit that I have tons of normal friendships and I only have one or two truly deep, incredible friendships. I thought I was pretty bad about letting people see the real me but the ENFJs Ive met have been way worse.

The one Im closest to seems like an open book, but its a trick. He has tons of opinions which fools people into thinking he is talking about himself, when in actuality he never opens up about personal things.

So what about you other ENFJs?

I know a whole lot of people....I have about....hmmm....(mentally counting) 1...2...3 friends and about 5 people I enjoy hanging out with....But I am definitely extraverted.

The problem is that I can only be friends with people I can really relate to on a deeper level, and that is hardly ever the case. So I hang out with people, but I am not really vested in it....

 

[Malkavia]

Well I'm ENFP and we definitely are able to handle each other's intensity.

That's a lot of great advice, just accepting ENFJs for who they are.

It is going to be different because I'm male, and my friend is male, but do ENFJs ever want (or need) reassurance? Even more specifically open, spoken reassurance that I think they're pretty much bad ass and accept them for who they are? (spoken in our own quirky friendship way, of course)

 

[Domino]

Is he aware of your feelings?

 

[nynesneg]

i prefer not to bring everything about myself to the table with people who won't really grasp my intensity or thoughts.

The problem is that I can only be friends with people I can really relate to on a deeper level, and that is hardly ever the case.

This...

my main incentive isn't to 'burden' other people with myself

...and this.

I know a whole lot of people... I am definitely extraverted.

Same here. For instance I have 389 friends on Facebook. I relate to many people, have had times when ultra conservative people thought we were exactly the same because I talked to them about the side we had in common. (social chameleon. lol)

Because I was homeschooled and currently dating someone, I don't have many local friends I hang out with. Harder to meet people once you're in the workforce, esp if you relate to men better than women. As far as close friends who I feel like understand me. Errrmm.... Maybe two or three who don't live anywhere near me and are currently in relationships so I hardly hear from them. But even then we only discuss certain aspects of intimate details, not the whole enchilada.

It's soo hard to find anyone who understands the deep conversations and thoughts I have. /sigh. BF gets a bored look if I discuss economics, business, observing people and their feelings, or my NF dreaming. I've only met one person who ever understood my passion for business, technology, and music, but he turned out to be a jerk in communication.

ENFJs ever want (or need) reassurance? Even more specifically open, spoken reassurance that I think they're pretty much bad ass and accept them for who they are? (spoken in our own quirky friendship way, of course)

Of course. Getting that is an amazing feeling, and it's very nice of you to try to give this to your friend.

 

[Malkavia]

Is he aware of your feelings?

I'm sure he is.

We hang out literally almost everyday working on projects, doing homework, studying, talking about ideas etc... But I have never just come out and said it word for word that I appreciate his friendship. It can be hard to formulate that in words.

 

[Kungpowish]

I don't know if there's anyone who is completely past my guard. I would be crushed if I lost my girlfriend but even she tends to only see the sides of me I want her to see.

As for just friends, I have yet to become so attached to one I couldn't leave them in an instant. I care about them and like them a lot, but when I had to move I didn't feel remorse or anything. It's odd that I never really thought about it quite this way. I always noticed that I am capable of ending friendships quickly and without second thoughts but it never really occurred to me that that might be because I am keeping people at a distance. It's very possible though.

I'll tell anyone who will listen almost about private things that happened to me etc. but that doesn't mean I let all my barriers down. I've also described myself as a "social chameleon". I become a different person on the surface with different groups of people so they all like me and think I'm who they want.

So short answer I guess I have yet to let anyone in completely. To do that I would need to feel they were capable of understanding me, and that they were very very committed to safeguarding my emotions. It would have to be someone who knows when to ask what's wrong and when not to look for the silver lining.

 

[nynesneg]

And when not to give you completely irrelevant advice, or jump to conclusions.

 

[Kungpowish]

I cannot overstate how much I agree with that.

 

[Willywallywoo]

I'm not sure.
How to define true friendships, or real openess?
I see myself as rather open, as a direct result of getting older, wiser and pure necessity. However, what I've seen as common sense is that I choose the right situation, right time, right person to share something with. Often my sharing is a wanting for that person to learn something as I got a lot of life experience. However it's rare or non existant rather, that I ever rant, rage, show anger and childishness- even though I have that in me too ofcourse when life doesnt go my way. Even towards those who I see who is absolutely closest to me pr today. I avoid being unpleasant at every cost on a general basis.
My problem is that the two people who actually were that close to me to see all my sides and beyond my guard died, I do not know if I will have such a relation to anyone ever again. And I don't think anyone around me will fully comprehend what a huge loss that is to me to not have anyone to feel safe with and unconditionally loved.

Anyway, I have a ton of GOOD friends, and perhaps..four.. five I see as close friends. These are people who has gotten a lot further in seeing me, and we can relate to eachother.
The problem with me, being crucially honest since I'm anonymonous behind a screenname P), I am usually very appriecated by people, and I notice this fairly well that everyone likes me a lot. People usually -get something- from me talking, I have a lot of stories and a lot of life experience which people seem to enjoy. So I usually mistake them for being superclose with me, since I share things with them. But it boils down to that everything i choose to say to a specific person has a sense of value to that specific person (I'd choose a topic they are passionate about, or struggle with themselves- thus a connection is made).

I meet one guy last summer, a completely random encounter, who I actually somewhat felt I could let my guard down with and he let down his, for one night. It was beautiful, and made a huge impression on me and taught me a lot. One was to try to learn to stand on your own, and be proud of who you are and not compare yourself with others. Very valuable to a person such as me. I grew a lot in those few hours alone.

 

[Glycerine]

I talk a lot and appear to be very "open" but then in the end people don't really see my private side. I talk hours and hours bouncing ideas off of others but I almost always forget to say much about my family (unless the other person asks).

 

[ceecee]

Well I'm ENFP and we definitely are able to handle each other's intensity.

That's a lot of great advice, just accepting ENFJs for who they are.

It is going to be different because I'm male, and my friend is male, but do ENFJs ever want (or need) reassurance? Even more specifically open, spoken reassurance that I think they're pretty much bad ass and accept them for who they are? (spoken in our own quirky friendship way, of course)

I think they do. I use my ENFJ man as the example but I think his way is common for ENFJ's. He is very confident in areas like his work or our relationship but in other areas he needs occasional reassurance. That "you're doing a great job and and I appreciate it very much" sort of reassurance. Or being there for them, as in present at the things they are involved in, this is especially important. I think when you tell an ENFJ that you care, it can't be empty words. Some might find this exhausting but I know my ENFJ would be there in the exact same way for me.

 

[Malkavia]

Thanks for all the help guys, I've learned a lot.

I guess my original reason for finding this out was because I noticed he doesnt have 1 person to talk those deeper things to. He doesnt even open up to his twin, which in my opinion can be unhealthy. I just dont want him bottling things up if its going to hurt him later.

 

[nynesneg]

^ But does he at least seem to open up different facets to different people? That seems to be a reoccuring theme, while we may not be entirely open to any one person, we at least vent different areas to the people who understand them.