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Thread: "Values"

  1. #11
    Senior Member Snow Turtle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Avis View Post
    I've frequently come across the statement, both in what I've read here and elsewhere, that NFs (or maybe INFPs in particular) base their decisions on "strong inner values." This has always seemed a bit quaint, or rather fuzzy, to me, and I couldn't figure out so far what that actually means. To sort it out a bit:

    First, to me the notion to "base one's decision on values" is a tautology, since whatever it is on which you base a decision has always to do with a certain value in some sense or another.
    For those that are uncomfortable with the word "value" (including myself), maybe it could be replaced by the term "axiom" - in any case, something which lies at the base of whatever we do and which in itself cannot be deduced from something else or reduced any further.


    Second, if this principle applies to all types, is it maybe that decisions are not based on values in general, but rather on specific values? Or put another way, is there something like type-specific values? Again, that would strike me as a bit odd since I think that it's not personal values that denote the type, but rather personality structure.

    Reading Keirsey, there were many passages where I could relate more to the NT than the NF, and I'm beginning to doubt whether I'm not actually an INTP or something :confused: (T/F being the weakest opposition). But I do like the NF subforum
    Maybe other INFPs simply understand what is meant by the phrase I posted above and can explain it. Thanks in advance
    This is the whole reason that I refer to Fi as the core person function. While it's true that they all have an impact on each other, I honestly believe this is the function that makes up the fundamentals of a person.

    Having said that, while everyone has Fi. Not all people are aware of Fi in process, or have a strong grasp/control on how Fi works within them. For me, statements that NF have strong inner values just means that NFs focus much more on their personal values, more so than other people. This is contrasted with a person, who while feeling one thing, has a certain value, dismisses it on the basis that it's just a feeling and therefore irrational.

    All actions are irrational at it's core, or rational depending on whichever way you like to perceive things.

  2. #12
    Vaguely Precise Seymour's Avatar
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    I think that Fi is hard to pin down in general, since it is more holistic, internal and less step-by-step than some other processes. Fi values can be things like "every person is entitled to respect" or "one's life should be one's art" or any number of things. I think those values tend to have a universal quality to them, rather than being obviously directly tied to the surrounding culture (although clearly those values are informed by experience).

    Since Fi values are more individually conceived and can may be at odds with the surrounding culture, Fi values can be emotionally jarring to Fe users and inexplicably contrary to Te and Ti users. The disturbing quality of Fi is made all the worse since Fi doesn't lend itself well to verbalization, and doesn't provide its own defense to external critiques.

    When Fi is in agreement with one's actions, I think it evokes an emotional response similar to what a Ti user feels when evaluating a precise, elegant and correct solution. (Although I believe Fi provides more feeling overtones when evaluating in general.) Unfortunately, Fi (much like Ti) is very good at detecting incongruence so being in completely accordance with one values may be a relatively rare thing.

    Both Fi and Ti have, I think, a similar process of discovering the principles that are already inherent. They feel to me less about imposing structure outward, and more about honing and refining towards the inward essence of things.

  3. #13
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zenihita View Post
    I used to be pretty sure that I was a strong T before; Keirsey's temperament descriptions make NFs sound like people very much in touch with their feelings, sentimental and emotional, so I did as well relate to NT descriptions a lot more. I see myself as analytical and even logical I wouldn't even say I was an idealist, I considered myself a realist. After I got more information I can see that part of this is because of all those notions that seemed very fuzzy to me too. I still don't think I can explain it quite clearly, but I seem to have a better idea of what it's like.
    I guess I prefer the word "principles".

    According to this INFPs can have different values.
    Keirsey sucks, IMO. I like his temperament system, and that's about it.
    I totally agree INFP values are going to vary. I've seen that page before and I agree with a lot of the criticisms of typical INFP profiles.

    I don't mind the word "values". I think it's just one of many laymen's interpretations of Jung's terminology. I like his terms because they have additional connotations that are lost when translating to a simpler wording.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  4. #14
    Head Pigeon Mad Hatter's Avatar
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    Thanks for all the replies so far
    To be honest, it's a lot of information to digest (which is nice), and it may take a while before I can make an informed reply Specifically, does anyone know a good link that provides information on the functions?
    From what I've read so far, they seem to be the crucial element here, but my knowledge about them is rather superficial.
    IN SERIO FATVITAS.

    -τὸ γὰρ γράμμα ἀποκτέννει, τὸ δὲ πνεῦμα ζῳοποιεῖ-

  5. #15
    Member Zenihita's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    Keirsey sucks, IMO. I like his temperament system, and that's about it.
    I totally agree INFP values are going to vary. I've seen that page before and I agree with a lot of the criticisms of typical INFP profiles.
    I do too and the profile that they have there is good as well.
    And Keirsey is not completely useless, but I think he exaggerates a lot.


    Quote Originally Posted by Avis View Post
    Thanks for all the replies so far
    To be honest, it's a lot of information to digest (which is nice), and it may take a while before I can make an informed reply Specifically, does anyone know a good link that provides information on the functions?
    From what I've read so far, they seem to be the crucial element here, but my knowledge about them is rather superficial.
    Have you seen this web-site?
    Also I would recommend exploring BestFitType.com

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