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  1. #11
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lauren Ashley View Post
    I wasn't disagreeing with your thread, just the idea that there exists music that is definitively bad. Low quality, yes. But I think the phrase, "bad music" is overused.
    I think most disagreements about music result from associating familiar and personal taste as "good" and its opposite as "bad".

    I should clarify that my beef is with the people who make statements like the one in the thread title, and not with this thread in any way. It's worth looking at if it is another strange assumption generated by MBTI labels. The same sort of thinking pervades many music discussions even without MBTI labels.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

    I want to be just like my mother, even if she is bat-shit crazy.

  2. #12
    Senior Member MonkeyGrass's Avatar
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    I think that's what compelled me to start the thread, Toonia...I was confused by what others meant by "bad music". Does "bad" music mean music that someone else doesn't care for? Or that we're incapable of distinguishing whether music is good quality or if it's poorly executed? The intent behind that broad statement will determine how I disagree with it.
    I think I think more than you think I think.

  3. #13
    Junior Member Claide's Avatar
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    None of my friends really approve of my taste in music. I just tell myself that I get more out of what I listen to than they do. Lately, I've gravitated towards music with thought-provoking or clever lyricism.

  4. #14
    Senior Member MonkeyGrass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claide View Post
    None of my friends really approve of my taste in music. I just tell myself that I get more out of what I listen to than they do. Lately, I've gravitated towards music with thought-provoking or clever lyricism.
    Me, too, Claide. Maybe that's a much stronger criteria for me than anything. There are popular artists and bands whose music is just fine, whom I get no particular joy in listening to, because it's just not clever.
    I think I think more than you think I think.

  5. #15
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MonkeyGrass View Post
    I think that's what compelled me to start the thread, Toonia...I was confused by what others meant by "bad music". Does "bad" music mean music that someone else doesn't care for? Or that we're incapable of distinguishing whether music is good quality or if it's poorly executed? The intent behind that broad statement will determine how I disagree with it.
    I guess the best way would be to hear it directly from the person making the statement. My impression is that most commonly people do associate "bad" with whatever music they do not personally enjoy. People who play an instrument a little will sometimes focus more on the technical execution of music. Some people focus on how derivative the music is - how much it is a mere copy of something else. That is a common feature of commercialized music - it goes out and finds a new style developing naturally to express something authentic about a group of people, it is seen as catching on and so it is copied and marketed until it is watered down and meaningless much like making a xerox of a xerox of a xerox of a work of art.

    So I would say the following issues are common in people defining music as "bad"

    Personally disliked This is purely subjective and has meaning primarily for the individual and doesn't extend to others, being based on personal associations and familiarity.

    Derivative This can measure the relationship of a piece of music within a larger context and whether it has the fully integrated expression and meaning of the original, or if it reassembles snippets of an original aesthetic in a superficial manner.

    Technically unskilled This can be measured and evaluated largely outside personal preference, but still has subjective elements.

    Poorly designed Although it is more rare that people focus on this aspect, but it addresses issues of proportion and cohesion.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

    I want to be just like my mother, even if she is bat-shit crazy.

  6. #16
    Senior Member The Outsider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MonkeyGrass View Post
    I've heard a few people say this, and I'll have to admit I was a little surprised.
    Who exactly? Where?

  7. #17
    Senior Member MonkeyGrass's Avatar
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    That is a common feature of commercialized music - it goes out and finds a new style developing naturally to express something authentic about a group of people, it is seen as catching on and so it is copied and marketed until it is watered down and meaningless much like making a xerox of a xerox of a xerox of a work of art.
    Agreed. Which is why I'm just baffled at the assertion that INFJs are more prone to appreciate watered down musical koolaid as you described. I tend detest tepid, uninspired music. We tend to value originality and thoughtfulness.

    That said, I do have a close INFJ friend who has terrible taste in music. However, I think has more to do with the fact that she's simply not really musically inclined at all.
    I think I think more than you think I think.

  8. #18
    Senior Member MonkeyGrass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Outsider View Post
    Who exactly? Where?
    Goodness, I knew someone was going to ask...I'll have to dig through and see if I could find the references. It's possible that when I saw the isolated few times stated as widely accepted fact, it just struck me as so odd that it stuck with me. I'll be just as happy to find out that this isn't really a common belief, if it isn't.
    I think I think more than you think I think.

  9. #19
    Senior Member The Outsider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MonkeyGrass View Post
    Goodness, I knew someone was going to ask...I'll have to dig through and see if I could find the references. It's possible that when I saw the isolated few times stated as widely accepted fact, it just struck me as so odd that it stuck with me. I'll be just as happy to find out that this isn't really a common belief, if it isn't.
    Oh no, there's no need.

    It is obviously an ignorant thing to say. People of same types don't share a common taste in music, that is entirely individual.

    That said, in my opinion, most people listen to bad music, but that's just my opinion.

  10. #20
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lauren Ashley View Post
    "Good" and "bad" are subjective. People irritate me when they say that some music is "bad." What's good or bad is dependent on the person listening to it.

    Music is like looking at a painting. One man's trash is another man's treasure.

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