[ENFJ] Overpowering the ENFJ charm.

[Cypocalypse]

I'm trying to do the heaviest undertaking an NP has to go through--break the ENFJ charm aura.

This is something I've pondered lately. Well, NPs have too much free time in their hands anyway. I was thinking as to why ENFJs always get to pwn me. Or anyone for that matter.

Basic ENFJ charm seems to work something like this.

1. She listens to you. Then UNDERSTANDS you.

E.g.,
Me: "Sorry if I have to bring you to this. Even if I'm in my late 20s, I'm still into comic books. And toys."
Her: "Haha! I read Batman"
Me: "Huh?"
Her: "DK. Frank Miller. I love it."
Me: "Really?"
Her: "I read comics. You know that Galactus Build-A-Figure thingie? I gave one to my ex as a gift. Haha!"

If that conversation will not pwn you...

2. She flirts with you.

E.g.,
Me: "Well, haha! You can't always use your charm, right? It's not like you can get away with everything using it. And...errr....it's kinda unfair. Maybe your guy has a point too, and...."
Her: "Well, it's not as if you would choose to hang out with him over me. Haha! is there a dilemma there to begin with? You always.....know.....which side to choose. *winks*
Me: "Errrrr.....yeah, I guess"

3. She wants you to tell the details of your sentiments.

E.g.
Me: "It's basically you asking the details about my sentiments that you already know."
Her: "I don't know." *winks*
Me: "You always know the details of what I want to say, even if I say them half encrypted."
Her: "What do you want to say?" *winks*


See, she already pwned me when she said she reads Batman. But still, she wants more pwnage by making me state my sentiments in detail. Which is sorta double whammy pwnage. And then, she hardly says anything about herself.

4. If you don't state your sentiments in detail and you decide to go on the offensive with your Ne sarcasm, she'll make you jealous.

E.g.,
Her: "You can't do that to me right now."
Me: "And why's that?"
Her: "Because Daniel (another member of the ENFJ fan club) has been sending me good text messages lately, and his is better than yours."
Me: "He's just more gullible."
Her: "So you still wanna be sarcastic?"
Me: "Do guys always have to be that Antonio Banderas cat in Shrek with that cutey eyes and all to you, Puss N Boots style?"
Her: "Haha! Always. Much better that way." *winks*

You end up either getting so frustrated (which you shouldn't be, because it make you such a loser), or you end up trying to compete with an imaginary 'Daniel'. You don't know if such a person actually exists, but knowing the fan club, he probably does.

_____________________

After that Ne versus her Fe slugfest, in which probably Ne will lose, you may actually be tempted to go to step 3 and actually tell her your sentiments.

I don't know. ENFJs want to make an Edward Cullen smooth talker out of every guy. Well, most of them seem to like Edward Cullen anyway. They just seem to hate him when they got to like Harry Potter first. And let's not even go to whom they like in the Tolkien world.

___________________

How does a guy get to have a workaround on this?

 

[ceecee]

How does a guy get to have a workaround on this?

You don't. Not really. My ENFJ gets away with more of this stuff than I'd ever let anyone else get away with. They know. They always know what you're thinking and feeling then they exploit it. In a good way for the most part.

He: What are you watching?

Me: This thing about great white sharks. They are tagging them and taking blood. It's a pretty brilliant set up they have here. They get under the shark with a cradle that raises them up to the ship level, they have 20 minutes to do everything. They have a shark lojack to put on the fin somewhere.

<next scene the tracking device is being installed using a drill, heavy bolts and it's ratcheted down. I know I'm physically cringing even when the scientists say it isn't hurting them>

He: <pats my hand>

Me: What?

He: I know what you're thinking. It's ok.

Me: Oh?

He: You have a excellent understanding of why they are doing this. The species is endangered and we know very little about them. Taking blood, tracking where they go, getting as much info as possible will be a huge help. BUT...you can't stand to see a human hurting an animal. Animals are more helpless to you than humans. Even though you know this is one of the fiercest predators of them all and are far from being helpless. You KNOW that shark would win every time head to head with a human.

Me: :steam: Yes but you don't have to go advertising this. Poor beastie.

He: I won't. It's very sweet how you love the animals. I won't tell anyone.

So you really don't have a chance. It's futile to fight it.

 

[Litvyak]

Interesting. I clash with ENFJs more often than not, male and female ones. I don't find them unusually charming or anything. Oh well.

 

[Domino]

CeeCee, I have more...

Husband: You were watching National Geographic channel.
You: Yes... I ...
H: You're so smart and informed. You can watch all the tough stuff because you can see the greater good of it. What a caring heart you have.
You: STOP THAT!
H: Cookies?

I watched a preview for that show - the tv station had made it seem like a bunch of fishermen were reeling in this giant shark, and I started angrily barking, "Leave him alone!! He only eats people because we've taken all his food and he's hungry!!"

My ENFP sister patted my leg and said, "Look - they're running water in his mouth and over his body. They're keeping him alive. Most likely scientists." And that's what it was.

*sheepish*

As to the disabling charm of ENFJs... I will have you know that every ENTP I've ever known, especially the ones I've dated have been able to do the exact same thing to me. Perhaps I don't show it. Perhaps I'm more able to cover it up with ready humor. But once an ENTP has worked their way into my inner sanctum, you have no idea how vulnerable I am to being annihilated.

My ENTP and I spent a lot of time wittily trading paint and verbally dueling because 1. we enjoyed it, and 2. we were expected to be "on" by the people around us (I can't explain that without going into huge detail so I'll skip it). But those moments when we weren't performing, which a good chunk of time, I admired him SO MUCH that I couldn't bring myself to say ANYTHING to him unless it was silly and provoking. Childish, I know. He was the same way. We spent a lot of time staring at each other in silence. There were certain moods that would take him, like he didn't care who was around and watching, and I thought he might grab me and do something X-rated right there in the middle of everyone. He could lean into my space and shut me up with his closeness. I'd blush to my hairline and get so breathless I'd have absolutely nothing to say.

Whatever the ENFJ is doing to you, whatever upper hand you think they have, they don't.

 

[nynesneg]

Aww I simply wub puss in boots, he is so damn adorable.


As for the OP, I can completely relate to your point 1. I do it all the time with nerdy IT guys, because I have quite alot of technical background and have developed a knowledge of Star Trek and sci-fi. I'm not the least bit interested in dating them, but rather enjoying an intelligent conversation. They don't get the hint and continually ask for my number through friends... BUT I'm not trying to conquer or charm them in any way, I'm simply enjoying getting to know another perspective on life.

 

[Billy]

I'm trying to do the heaviest undertaking an NP has to go through--break the ENFJ charm aura.

This is something I've pondered lately. Well, NPs have too much free time in their hands anyway. I was thinking as to why ENFJs always get to pwn me. Or anyone for that matter.

Basic ENFJ charm seems to work something like this.

1. She listens to you. Then UNDERSTANDS you.

E.g.,
Me: "Sorry if I have to bring you to this. Even if I'm in my late 20s, I'm still into comic books. And toys."
Her: "Haha! I read Batman"
Me: "Huh?"
Her: "DK. Frank Miller. I love it."
Me: "Really?"
Her: "I read comics. You know that Galactus Build-A-Figure thingie? I gave one to my ex as a gift. Haha!"

If that conversation will not pwn you...

2. She flirts with you.

E.g.,
Me: "Well, haha! You can't always use your charm, right? It's not like you can get away with everything using it. And...errr....it's kinda unfair. Maybe your guy has a point too, and...."
Her: "Well, it's not as if you would choose to hang out with him over me. Haha! is there a dilemma there to begin with? You always.....know.....which side to choose. *winks*
Me: "Errrrr.....yeah, I guess"

3. She wants you to tell the details of your sentiments.

E.g.
Me: "It's basically you asking the details about my sentiments that you already know."
Her: "I don't know." *winks*
Me: "You always know the details of what I want to say, even if I say them half encrypted."
Her: "What do you want to say?" *winks*


See, she already pwned me when she said she reads Batman. But still, she wants more pwnage by making me state my sentiments in detail. Which is sorta double whammy pwnage. And then, she hardly says anything about herself.

4. If you don't state your sentiments in detail and you decide to go on the offensive with your Ne sarcasm, she'll make you jealous.

E.g.,
Her: "You can't do that to me right now."
Me: "And why's that?"
Her: "Because Daniel (another member of the ENFJ fan club) has been sending me good text messages lately, and his is better than yours."
Me: "He's just more gullible."
Her: "So you still wanna be sarcastic?"
Me: "Do guys always have to be that Antonio Banderas cat in Shrek with that cutey eyes and all to you, Puss N Boots style?"
Her: "Haha! Always. Much better that way." *winks*

You end up either getting so frustrated (which you shouldn't be, because it make you such a loser), or you end up trying to compete with an imaginary 'Daniel'. You don't know if such a person actually exists, but knowing the fan club, he probably does.

_____________________

After that Ne versus her Fe slugfest, in which probably Ne will lose, you may actually be tempted to go to step 3 and actually tell her your sentiments.

I don't know. ENFJs want to make an Edward Cullen smooth talker out of every guy. Well, most of them seem to like Edward Cullen anyway. They just seem to hate him when they got to like Harry Potter first. And let's not even go to whom they like in the Tolkien world.

___________________

How does a guy get to have a workaround on this?

hahahahahaha Dude! I am dating an ENFJ too and its the SAME thing!

She just made a shitload of Ornaments for my Xmas tree, all 8 bit NES characters with a Mario Bros Star for the top! I was like MARRY ME!

 

[nynesneg]

IT geek + intellectual nerd + sci-fi + gamer =

Or any of the above including engineering or electronics geek. Yeah... an adorable and attractive expression of individuality and intelligence!


Then if they're a normal socially adept and attractive person like myself, it's a double whammy! I drool. Those are extremely rare.

 

[Ethereal]

The ENFJ doesn't necessarily know what you are thinking, or at least not the INTP mind. They may think they do, and they suggest they do, and the way they suggest it makes you think they do. Grill them with hard logic, it's not their specialty, and as I have found with the case of my mother, they don't know.

Then again, I am told that I am exactly like my long-deceased father, who by all accounts was an INTP, who my mother married. So maybe there is something to it...

 

[OrangeAppled]

The ENFJ doesn't necessarily know what you are thinking, or at least not the INTP mind. They may think they do, and they suggest they do, and the way they suggest it makes you think they do.

I find that true of Fi also. I think introverted judging is harder for them to unravel, and that mystery probably is what makes INxPs enticing to some ENFJs. So to the OP....the trick is to keep 'em on their toes. Just when they think they've got you all figured out, throw them a curve ball and let them know they haven't.

 

[Ethereal]

I find that true of Fi also. I think introverted judging is harder for them to unravel, and that mystery probably is what makes INxPs enticing to some ENFJs. So to the OP....the trick is to keep 'em on their toes. Just when they think they've got you all figured out, throw them a curve ball and let them know they haven't.

Which is the problem with ENFJ parents, according to the only in depth ENFJ parenting thing on the web, ENFJ Relationships, children grow, and if that child is an introvert, then the changes happen within and are not visible to the parent. When these changes emerge, they are already deeply-set, and to the extroverted judger parent, would appear to come out of nowhere. This would leave the parent dazed and confused. The intentions may be good, but they are still stifling.

It's a catch 22, as long as you believe that they know what you are thinking, then they will. My experience is as an INTP, so maybe this applies mainly to the INTX types. If you are a feeler or an XSTX, then things may be different...

 

[Domino]

I'm sorry, but I've never found xNTPs hard to figure out. There's nothing enigmatic about them. Though being stripped of that supposed Sphinx-like aura seems to bother them a great deal. Shouting "You don't know me! I'm a great big mystery!" doesn't make you any less transparent to certain people. Transparency has nothing to do with how complicated you are as a person.

I'm transparent to my ENFP sister. I just deal with it.

INFPs can keep me guessing. I know their moral baseline and who they are as a person, but the reactions can be wide and varied, so I tend to wait on how they react to something to know how to be supportive.

 

[Ghost of the dead horse]

Well, my situations with ENFJ's have been those with winners. Neither can win, we part our ways. Stalemate.

The same thing as with most ESTP's I've seen.

 

[Domino]

ENTJs and ENFJs aren't meant to do battle! We're meant to partner up and take over the world. We're sympatico!

Signed, Homer HendelBergenHeizel, Esquire

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

ENTJs and ENFJs aren't meant to do battle! We're meant to partner up and take over the world. We're sympatico!

Signed, Homer HendelBergenHeizel, Esquire

The combined powers of a balanced ENTJ and a balanced ENFJ would be frightening and awe inspiring to behold.

 

[sunshinEnfp]

The ENFJ doesn't necessarily know what you are thinking, or at least not the INTP mind. They may think they do, and they suggest they do, and the way they suggest it makes you think they do. Grill them with hard logic, it's not their specialty, and as I have found with the case of my mother, they don't know.

I do have to say that this is a problem with one of my ENFJ friends in particular... she thinks she knows EXACTLY what I am thinking, but she doesn't. I think it's sticking out more because we used to be on the same wavelength. My other ENFJ friends and I are fine, but she has been very off in reading me lately, but thinks she has me so figured out. Uh, nope.

 

[the state i am in]

enfjs don't necessarily understand others in-so-much as they know how to AFFECT them. they're the best in the world at this. they know what works and what doesn't, they are masters of understanding social CONTEXT above all else, so they can imagine what the externalities are doing to your interior very well. the broader and more advanced their Ni, the better they are at gravitating toward the tense/active energies + knowing how to massage them out. depending on enneagram type/specialization, they'll have different distributions of skillsets/awarenesses that may be better or worse at hitting the mark for you. my intj 6 immediately hits it off with enfj 2s, but not 3s. the 6 and 3 clash, the 2 is instantly trustworthy and benevolent (same experience for me, altho i generally like all 4s).

great Ni, as mentioned, will make enfjs get the gist of things really well. they'll just see where the whole scene intersects, what the big picture hinges on, where things converge, etc. but they will not have your judgments worked out in the way that they make sense to you. they generally are very fluid and the inferior Ji makes them a little less grounded than many other types when it comes to navigating the world of Ji (just like, as infj, i am least confident/capable in the realm of Pe where i have to rely on instincts and immediately REACT).

 

[OrangeAppled]

enfjs don't necessarily understand others in-so-much as they know how to AFFECT them.

Good distinction. I suppose this is how they know what you feel - they made you feel it

 

[the state i am in]

Good distinction. I suppose this is how they know what you feel - they made you feel it

+100

especially when you look at that winking example. suggestive Fe is infinitely adaptable. you can always call an audible, move in a different direction, adjust your approach, revise your articulation, specify or expand, etc.

that's a huge key to an extroverted function. it gets very good at merging, which is all about speed speed speed. e3s are especially good at being aware of how they present themselves, so they know EXACTLY what they're selling at all times. "winning smiles," etc.

 

[nynesneg]

Eh. I don't agree with this, I don't make people feel anything.

I do howeover observe what goes on in social situations to assist my understanding of people.

 

[sunshinEnfp]

Eh. I don't agree with this, I don't make people feel anything.

I do howeover observe what goes on in social situations to assist my understanding of people.

But here's the thing... I think a lot of ENFJs don't think they consciously try to make people feel a certain way, but I think it happens anyway... even if the ENFJ is unaware of it (and the other person, too).