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  1. #21
    Senior Member Heinel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunshinEnfp View Post
    But here's the thing... I think a lot of ENFJs don't think they consciously try to make people feel a certain way, but I think it happens anyway... even if the ENFJ is unaware of it (and the other person, too).
    +1

    That's what I saw too.
    Check out my blog: http://OrnateRitual.com

  2. #22
    Alexander the Terrible yenom's Avatar
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    I'm trying to do the heaviest undertaking an NP has to go through--break the ENFJ charm aura.

    This is something I've pondered lately. Well, NPs have too much free time in their hands anyway. I was thinking as to why ENFJs always get to pwn me. Or anyone for that matter.

    Basic ENFJ charm seems to work something like this.

    1. She listens to you. Then UNDERSTANDS you.

    E.g.,
    Me: "Sorry if I have to bring you to this. Even if I'm in my late 20s, I'm still into comic books. And toys."
    Her: "Haha! I read Batman"
    Me: "Huh?"
    Her: "DK. Frank Miller. I love it."
    Me: "Really?"
    Her: "I read comics. You know that Galactus Build-A-Figure thingie? I gave one to my ex as a gift. Haha!"



    If that conversation will not pwn you...

    2. She flirts with you.

    E.g.,
    Me: "Well, haha! You can't always use your charm, right? It's not like you can get away with everything using it. And...errr....it's kinda unfair. Maybe your guy has a point too, and...."
    Her: "Well, it's not as if you would choose to hang out with him over me. Haha! is there a dilemma there to begin with? You always.....know.....which side to choose. *winks*
    Me: "Errrrr.....yeah, I guess"

    3. She wants you to tell the details of your sentiments.

    E.g.
    Me: "It's basically you asking the details about my sentiments that you already know."
    Her: "I don't know." *winks*
    Me: "You always know the details of what I want to say, even if I say them half encrypted."
    Her: "What do you want to say?" *winks*


    See, she already pwned me when she said she reads Batman. But still, she wants more pwnage by making me state my sentiments in detail. Which is sorta double whammy pwnage. And then, she hardly says anything about herself.

    4. If you don't state your sentiments in detail and you decide to go on the offensive with your Ne sarcasm, she'll make you jealous.

    E.g.,
    Her: "You can't do that to me right now."
    Me: "And why's that?"
    Her: "Because Daniel (another member of the ENFJ fan club) has been sending me good text messages lately, and his is better than yours."
    Me: "He's just more gullible."
    Her: "So you still wanna be sarcastic?"
    Me: "Do guys always have to be that Antonio Banderas cat in Shrek with that cutey eyes and all to you, Puss N Boots style?"
    Her: "Haha! Always. Much better that way." *winks*



    You end up either getting so frustrated (which you shouldn't be, because it make you such a loser), or you end up trying to compete with an imaginary 'Daniel'. You don't know if such a person actually exists, but knowing the fan club, he probably does.

    _____________________

    After that Ne versus her Fe slugfest, in which probably Ne will lose, you may actually be tempted to go to step 3 and actually tell her your sentiments.

    I don't know. ENFJs want to make an Edward Cullen smooth talker out of every guy. Well, most of them seem to like Edward Cullen anyway. They just seem to hate him when they got to like Harry Potter first. And let's not even go to whom they like in the Tolkien world.
    Maybe they are also capable of mind control?
    Its not really charm when you can see through it.

    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    The combined powers of a balanced ENTJ and a balanced ENFJ would be frightening and awe inspiring to behold.

    Really? What are you going to do? I am curious? Conquer the world with love?
    The fear of poverty turns people into slaves of money.

    "In this Caesar there are many Mariuses"~Sulla

    Conquer your inner demons first before you conquer the world.

  3. #23
    Senior Member nynesneg's Avatar
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    But here's the thing... I think a lot of ENFJs don't think they consciously try to make people feel a certain way, but I think it happens anyway... even if the ENFJ is unaware of it (and the other person, too).
    I am very intrigued with your perspective. We must be alot more powerful than we think. lol. Care to give examples? I just see it as finding ways to connect with people and relate to them on their level... You know, being able to talk about whatever they are interested in. But how do we make people feel a certain way?

    Quote Originally Posted by cloud View Post
    Maybe they are also capable of mind control?
    Its not really charm when you can see through it.
    rofl... psychic powers? How do I get on board? I want to get everyone to do things my way. This could solve all my problems, better job, better achievements, better house, better car, the possibilities are endless!




    Really? What are you going to do? I am curious? Conquer the world with love?
    Na, just charasmatically brainwash everyone into becoming minions of our evil plots.
    3w2


    Those who are content being normal lack the depth and passion to rise above mediocracy.
    To push beyond their natural abilities and create a reality from their dreams.

  4. #24
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nynesneg View Post
    I am very intrigued with your perspective. We must be alot more powerful than we think. lol. Care to give examples? I just see it as finding ways to connect with people and relate to them on their level... You know, being able to talk about whatever they are interested in. But how do we make people feel a certain way?
    I don't know, but it's there by definition: F is a judgment function, Fe is focused on the world outside the Fe-user herself, it's creative, generative and directive. I have no idea how it works other than observing that Fe users have needs, and they arrive on the scene like a pressure for me to perform. One sees it in smiles or chills or frowns or false notes or joyfulness, and it's probably present in word choice and absolutely it's present in decision-making signals.

    There's a reason ENFJs are called propagandists.

    INFJs have that too, but they're far less energised by the combat and they opt out of the high-powered, highly interactive directioneering.
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

  5. #25
    Senior Member Heinel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    I don't know, but it's there by definition: F is a judgment function, Fe is focused on the world outside the Fe-user herself, it's creative, generative and directive. I have no idea how it works other than observing that Fe users have needs, and they arrive on the scene like a pressure for me to perform. One sees it in smiles or chills or frowns or false notes or joyfulness, and it's probably present in word choice and absolutely it's present in decision-making signals.

    There's a reason ENFJs are called propagandists.

    INFJs have that too, but they're far less energised by the combat and they opt out of the high-powered, highly interactive directioneering.
    The most fearful part of it I think is that sometimes even if you know they are manipulating, the feelings that they wish upon you will still get through. If they want you hurt, you will feel it, in the most extreme way possible...
    Check out my blog: http://OrnateRitual.com

  6. #26
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunshinEnfp View Post
    But here's the thing... I think a lot of ENFJs don't think they consciously try to make people feel a certain way, but I think it happens anyway... even if the ENFJ is unaware of it (and the other person, too).


    I don't think there's any conscious, manipulative aspect to it.


    I just see it as finding ways to connect with people and relate to them on their level... You know, being able to talk about whatever they are interested in. But how do we make people feel a certain way?
    It's the effort to connect that does it. You make people feel good (ie. by showing personal interest), they open up, you understand them more, they feel understood & feel even better, etc. It all starts by bringing out an emotional reaction in them. ENFJs have an uncanny, natural ability to do this. I think it doesn't feel like you are trying to make people feel anything because you probably aren't trying - you are just being you.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  7. #27
    Senior Member nynesneg's Avatar
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    What's wrong with that? I love helping people feel better! If I can do something special for them in the slightest way it makes life seem more worthwhile... I made some teddy bears for sick kids in the hospital the other day and my entire night felt more at peace for helping them feel loved during a difficult time. I guess the Fe perspective can be explained in my NF Epiphany thread...

    So the entire complaints in this thread are about people who felt "manipulated" by the care/connection from an ENFJ, and didn't want to be understood. In their POV the natural ENFJ made them too comfortable opening up and conveyed a false sense of warmth?

    Am I getting it now?
    Last edited by nynesneg; 12-09-2009 at 09:54 AM. Reason: Removed bf part. In a healthy relationship it's not harmful at all! I was simply letting bf understand how much he'd upset me
    3w2


    Those who are content being normal lack the depth and passion to rise above mediocracy.
    To push beyond their natural abilities and create a reality from their dreams.

  8. #28
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    I've heard over and over how we "make" people feel things, and I still find that to be rubbish. Or should I say, I'll never be able to understand it. People make ME feel things all the time - as strong as my Fe is, I can't get away from others' feelings, not the other way 'round.

    Just because my presence is causing an emotional response in you does NOT mean that I orchestrated it or did it by design. You can believe if you're feeling something, I am too, and in Technicolor.

    The objects of my affection (friend, family, boyfriends etc) *should* feel strongly about me. I feel that way about them.
    eNFJ 4w3 sx/so 468 tritype
    Neutral Good
    EII-Fi subtype, Ethical/Empath, Delta/Beta
    RLUEI, Choleric/Melancholic
    Inquistive/Limbic
    AIS Holland code
    Researcher: VDI-P
    Dramatic>Sensitive>Serious

  9. #29
    Senior Member Heinel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nynesneg View Post
    Sure, I won't deny that I've guilt tripped my boyfriend a few times for my advantage/revenge when he did something particularly upsetting. But what female doesn't do that?
    Being male or female has nothing to do with it. It is a very unethical excuse, in addition to being politically incorrect, I might add. Emotion as a weapon is far more damaging than a physical one. Many psychological wounds, even if the person consciously willed them away, still lies in the subconscious. It's the most inhumane way to hurt somebody. No exceptions.
    Check out my blog: http://OrnateRitual.com

  10. #30
    Senior Member Cypocalypse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nynesneg View Post
    What's wrong with that? I love helping people feel better! If I can do something special for them in the slightest way it makes life seem more worthwhile... I made some teddy bears for sick kids in the hospital the other day and my entire night felt more at peace for helping them feel loved during a difficult time. I guess the Fe perspective can be explained in my NF Epiphany thread...

    So the entire complaints in this thread are about people who felt "manipulated" by the care/connection from an ENFJ, and didn't want to be understood. In their POV the natural ENFJ made them too comfortable opening up and conveyed a false sense of warmth?

    Am I getting it now?




    Sure, I won't deny that I've guilt tripped my boyfriend a few times for my advantage/revenge when he did something particularly upsetting. But what female doesn't do that?
    LOL! What the thread meant was "I love ENFJs". That's just an NTP way of saying it. LOL!

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