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  1. #71
    Vaguely Precise Seymour's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by William K View Post
    I don't think any of us has any problem with looking at the weaknesses and bad points of an INFP. Like all other types, we all have our strengths and weaknesses. And I agree that certain problems tend to occur more often to INFPs (depression, melancholy) because of the way we behave and think.

    What I do challenge is the assertion (not in the OP but in one of the responses), that the problem is caused by the person being 'too' INFP or using too much Fi or whatever combination of INFP functions, and that the solution to the problem is to be less INFP and work on using other functions. [...]
    I agree especially with William K's first paragraph. I am very suspicious of assertions of causality, in particular that we are INFP because we are damaged or had certain family dynamics. Correlation is not causality. We don't know the order of events or the mechanisms. Leaping to "must be the result of damage" just reinforces the "INFPs are broken" meme, which some of us absorbed from external sources in childhood (even if we didn't know we were INFPs). So you may get some prickly responses.

    As a gay man I react with similar hostility to "being gay is caused by family damage" for the same reasons. Self-worth and sane thinking are an uphill battle when you absorbed messages that who you are is broken. It's interesting that even though the most recent research indicates that genetics and hormone levels in the womb are the biggest factors in determining male homosexuality, you still often hear theories of family dynamics and improper parenting trotted out.

    So, I'm happy to talk about the strengths and weaknesses of being INFP (or being gay, for that matter), but I'm unlikely to go along with "being INFP is the result of damage" without some pretty strong evidence (correlation and time order, at the very least).

    As far as INFP conflicts between fathers and sons, in particular, it seems likely to me that some fathers may find relating to INFP sons a little difficult. INFP women aren't stereotypical women either. They are too introverted, not into the Fe thing, etc., so those traits could sometimes lead to strained family dynamics, as well.

    Plus, as INFPs we have the added bonus of being very aware of every negative reaction; it's harder for us to turn off our perceptions of the emotions of others than it is for some other types. I could see that dynamic leaded to more reinforcement, since subtle reactions happen more often the explicit negative statements.

  2. #72
    Senor Membrane
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    Quote Originally Posted by William K View Post
    My point is that it is the misuse and not the overuse of the INFP functions that causes the problem. And fixing it requires understanding and using Fi (or Ne, Si, Te, whatever) correctly.
    I agree, and I wasn't thinking about any specific post or a member. It's just this "mood" I've been getting in some threads.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cranky View Post
    The more responses I get, and the more I talk to my IRL male INFPs, the more a picture is starting to emerge of FATHER issues CAUSING the mother issues. The story I am hearing again and again is either a lack of a father, or that father misunderstanding the sensitive boy's nature...and God help us all, trying to make a 'man' out of him.

    The mother is passive in this tale.
    Well, for me it was like father is absent (even when he's physically there) or a punisher ("mild" corporeal punishment was somehow still ok in our house, though it was already late eighties then) and mother is, yeah, maybe more passive in terms of power, but not in terms of being there for us. Actually dad was just a guy hanging around in almost all of my early memories. But his absence was not only because of me being weird, because my brother was/is very much like him, and I don't remember them bonding too well either. I think he just didn't understand what he should do with kids.

  3. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adoamros View Post
    intp with an esfj?

    that's like the worst combination ever.
    Agreed. At least one of the worst. My mother would start and try to win arguments with my stepfather by using an onslaught of selfish emotions (i.e. I don't feel appreciated around here so I bought a new car that isn't within our budget and you {to stepfather} need to pay for it because you are the cause of my unhappiness). Then he would try to put things into a rational perspective... and she would start crying, talking over him, and lock herself in a room before letting him respond again... then call friends and relatives and give a one-sided story of the argument to make her feel like she was "in the right".

    Lol, of course that story ends in divorce. <_< it really was inevitable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adoamros View Post
    ESFJs can't not nag.
    Every ESFJ i've met has convinced me that this may be more than simply a correlation. :P

    ------------------

    My INFP brother does have a lot of issues and built up stress because of the effects of my Mother. He is not fond of dishonesty, and my mother represents honestly like a platypus represents a mammal (distorted in other words). Although the main problem is that her criticism isn't constructive and when she is in a bad mood, she is serving it cold, and anyone in a twenty yard radius gets a slice.

  4. #74
    Member lookingglassworld's Avatar
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    One of my ex-boyfriends is I suspect an infp. He has a close relationship with his mother. Well, she didn't believe me to be good enough for her son. (Lot of personal issues at the time that hadn't been worked out) We tried it twice. Enough of an influence in his life that she was able to sway him to her way of thinking. Just speculation here I believe her type is that of a somewhat unhealthy ESFJ. Not trying to come down on the type(my husband is an ESFJ) it takes all kinds to make up a world. LOL
    Welcome to the Rabbit Hole
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  5. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cranky View Post
    I really, REALLY INFPs. Promises and pinky-swears.
    Good to know, as I feel likewise about certain NTJ women I've known, though circumstances have not smiled on me in that regard.

    Seriously, I'd like to think that someday I may have an NTJ fixation which is not of the unrequited or impossible variety...

    "Situations have ended sad
    Relationships have all been bad
    Mine've been like Verlaine's and Rimbaud..."
    --Bobert INFP Dylan

  6. #76
    Junior Member ilovetheclouds's Avatar
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    I am an INFP, and I lost my mother (and father) when I was 4. They both were too into drugs to take care of me or my two younger siblings. So, my grandmother's best friend and her husband adopted us. I began to call them my mother and father. In the beginning, things weren't too scary because they had taken care of me since I was born. But after a short while, my new mother began to abuse me. I don't know if it was out of love or anger, if she thought she was doing the right thing, or what, but she would slap me and hit me and verbally abuse me, all at the tender ages of 4/5- 10/12. Once I became a teenager she stopped hitting me and verbally abusing me, probably because I was strong enough to fight back. All throughout those early years, I would try to tell my father (her husband) about these things, and she would always lie about them, saying she didn't know why I would say such a thing. Nowadays I know that my father knows she did these things, and she has admitted to hitting me more than my younger siblings (she never hit them), but she wouldn't admit to the various horribly painful things she would say, or just how frequently or violently she would hit me. So, because of all this, I have since had difficulty establishing romantic relationships with women. I have had two passionate ones, but I was much too insecure and needy for either to last more than a few months.
    Perhaps some of you can identify with this story. I am trying to teach myself that rejection is okay, and inevitable, yet I am still too timid to enter into relationships.
    It is good to find people who seem to understand the type of situation I have been through.

  7. #77
    /X\(:: :: )/X\ BlueSprout's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ilovetheclouds View Post
    I am an INFP, and I lost my mother (and father) when I was 4. They both were too into drugs to take care of me or my two younger siblings. So, my grandmother's best friend and her husband adopted us. I began to call them my mother and father. In the beginning, things weren't too scary because they had taken care of me since I was born. But after a short while, my new mother began to abuse me. I don't know if it was out of love or anger, if she thought she was doing the right thing, or what, but she would slap me and hit me and verbally abuse me, all at the tender ages of 4/5- 10/12. Once I became a teenager she stopped hitting me and verbally abusing me, probably because I was strong enough to fight back. All throughout those early years, I would try to tell my father (her husband) about these things, and she would always lie about them, saying she didn't know why I would say such a thing. Nowadays I know that my father knows she did these things, and she has admitted to hitting me more than my younger siblings (she never hit them), but she wouldn't admit to the various horribly painful things she would say, or just how frequently or violently she would hit me. So, because of all this, I have since had difficulty establishing romantic relationships with women. I have had two passionate ones, but I was much too insecure and needy for either to last more than a few months.
    Perhaps some of you can identify with this story. I am trying to teach myself that rejection is okay, and inevitable, yet I am still too timid to enter into relationships.
    It is good to find people who seem to understand the type of situation I have been through.
    I'm so sorry about what you had to go through. I've noticed that child abuse impacts people in lots of different ways in the long term. Every coping style is a little unique. Maybe INFPs are more likely to be avoidant and less likely to cover up or redirect that raw emotion. Maybe Fi-Si causes them to get stuck more often in visiting and revisiting the pain of the experience. But no matter what type you are, I would urge you to seek professional counselling if it's still ruling your life. From experience, I'm sure you will get sympathy and support on this forum, but it's no substitute for working on regaining your self worth. I wish you the best.

  8. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by ilovetheclouds View Post
    I am an INFP, and I lost my mother (and father) when I was 4. They both were too into drugs to take care of me or my two younger siblings. So, my grandmother's best friend and her husband adopted us. I began to call them my mother and father. In the beginning, things weren't too scary because they had taken care of me since I was born. But after a short while, my new mother began to abuse me. I don't know if it was out of love or anger, if she thought she was doing the right thing, or what, but she would slap me and hit me and verbally abuse me, all at the tender ages of 4/5- 10/12. Once I became a teenager she stopped hitting me and verbally abusing me, probably because I was strong enough to fight back. All throughout those early years, I would try to tell my father (her husband) about these things, and she would always lie about them, saying she didn't know why I would say such a thing. Nowadays I know that my father knows she did these things, and she has admitted to hitting me more than my younger siblings (she never hit them), but she wouldn't admit to the various horribly painful things she would say, or just how frequently or violently she would hit me. So, because of all this, I have since had difficulty establishing romantic relationships with women. I have had two passionate ones, but I was much too insecure and needy for either to last more than a few months.
    Perhaps some of you can identify with this story. I am trying to teach myself that rejection is okay, and inevitable, yet I am still too timid to enter into relationships.
    It is good to find people who seem to understand the type of situation I have been through.
    I can identify with having trouble with relationships. It's the main story of my life in some ways. I don't remember that much about my childhood, if that tells you anything.

  9. #79
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    I recently had a discussion with my mother and in light of this; I stumbled upon this forum through a Google search. By reading this thread I can conclude that my mom is an esfj. In my teen years and early twenties I used to get along good with my mom. But later on I have come to realize that we only got along because, I did what I was told. Even though she gave me the impression that I had freedom in choosing the things I wanted and to develop into being independent, she always manipulated me in such a way that everything I did was something she wanted. So I wasn't really developing myself fully as an individual. Part of this was my fault to. As I did not let my opinions on known.
    I moved to another country to go to the university and even though I was in another country, I noticed that I had difficulty in sticking up for myself and seemed to be procrastinating a lot. It was so bad that even a simple thing as going out with friends gave me a strange feeling of guilt, like I was doing something wrong. As the years went by I learned to survive on my own. But always felt like my mother had influence over me. Iím back in my homeland and am 29 now and suddenly I am starting to realize, that I havenít really lived at all, that I missed out on a lot due to a feeling of fear. I blame myself for letting things just go their way. This realization made me change and now I find that I voice my opinions very strongly and react very strongly on manipulative statements. People who use every kind of word play or mental games to manipulate other people, irritates me to hell and I donít tolerate this anymore. My mother did this manipulation thing and still does. And now we quarrel a lot.
    Öa stressed and worried INFP guy.

    p.s: I apologize for my bad english

  10. #80
    Seriously Delirious Udog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Airwalker View Post
    I moved to another country to go to the university and even though I was in another country, I noticed that I had difficulty in sticking up for myself and seemed to be procrastinating a lot. It was so bad that even a simple thing as going out with friends gave me a strange feeling of guilt, like I was doing something wrong. As the years went by I learned to survive on my own. But always felt like my mother had influence over me. Iím back in my homeland and am 29 now and suddenly I am starting to realize, that I havenít really lived at all, that I missed out on a lot due to a feeling of fear. I blame myself for letting things just go their way. This realization made me change and now I find that I voice my opinions very strongly and react very strongly on manipulative statements. People who use every kind of word play or mental games to manipulate other people, irritates me to hell and I donít tolerate this anymore. My mother did this manipulation thing and still does. And now we quarrel a lot.
    Öa stressed and worried ISNP guy.
    Man, I could have written so much of that. I'm 30 as well, btw. My mother used to make me feel so guilty for going out and doing something fun. She ruined a relationship and played a notable role in breaking up another potential relationship. Standing up for myself can be extremely stressful, because I learned as a child that standing up for myself made me a horrible son and horrible person, and led to me being emotionally pulverized until I was a pile of tears.

    I'm 30 now, and also feel like I haven't really lived at all either. Or rather, the life I lived wasn't my own. It was my mom's.

    Anyway... here's the good news. You are only 29. So many people don't realize what's going on until they are 40, 50, or even on their death bed. Consider yourself ahead of the game. It's not going to be easy, but by dealing with these issues now, you give yourself a chance to claim your adulthood, be your own person, and live the life you want to live.

    Those things aren't easy... but who honestly thinks that the path to joy is an easy one?

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