[ENFJ] Hate an ENFJ? Tell us why!

[quietgirl]

I have seen ENFJ's cut other's down because of moral principles that themselves do not live up to. For example, calling another woman a slut and then engaging in sexually permiscuous(sp) behavior.

On a smaller scale, my ENFJ cousin does this with the phone & social activities. She will tell me off because I didn't return her call right away, but then won't return my calls for days. She'll also expect that you hang out when she's available to hang out & then make herself completely unavailable for weeks. She'll criticize her friends for going out & getting drunk and then the next night is pounding beers like a pro. It drives me up a wall.

 

[runvardh]

I thought I liked me! How can someone that horrid be a reflexion of my soul? (hmmm... If I sold my soul would I be getting rid of aforementioned evil ENFJ?)

I can only hope that when society is forced to accept F males they're made to realize that T females aren't all ice queens!!!

I believe I've proclaimed the heat in the freezer many times on this board... ^_^

 

[proteanmix]

Posts about the perils and joys of being on the meat market moved here

 

[The Third Rider]

My ENFP twin and I were just discussing this very thing last night -- how different the ENFJ men are from the women. I'd posited the theory that they were overpowered by emotion (as I frequently feel) but are societally trained as males to dissociate from the emotion, and the only way to do that is to become a complete jerk. The tidal wave of emotion is bad enough as a female, I can only imagine how paralyzing it must be for a man in the same position. This is not of course carte blanche for them to act like brutes. I make no excuses for it. Just pondering.

Hummm, I try to never show my emotions because to me that shows my weaknessess but it only made me make this point stronger after one day when me and an ENFp friend were watching Letters of Iwo Jima. I made a comment that I felt bad for the Japanese on how they died on that Island and she said something like (I can't remember too well) that I really don't have feelings for me to feel bad for them. Then I proceeded to tell her "that may be people don't know this about me but I am an emotional person" and she immediatly laughed her ass off and called me a pussy because I said I was emotional, which got me insanely furious. I crossed my arms and I didn't mention a word to her (I don't think she noticed I was pissed off), I just wanted to kick her out of my house and thank God she left 5 minutes afterwards because I couldn't hold it in. After that I said I wouldn't share my feelings with any one else agian.

 

[runvardh]

Hummm, I try to never show my emotions because to me that shows my weaknessess but it only made me make this point stronger after one day when me and an ENFp friend were watching Letters of Iwo Jima. I made a comment that I felt bad I for the Japanese on how they died on that Island and she said something like (I can't remember too well) I really don't have feelings to feel bad for them. Then I proceeded to tell her "that may be people don't know this about me but I am an emotional person" and she immediatly laughed her ass off and called me a pussy because I said I was emotional, which got me insanely furious. I crossed my arms and I didn't mention a word to her (I don't think she noticed I was pissed off), I just wanted to kick her out of my house and thank God she left 5 minutes afterwards because I couldn't hold it in. After that I said I wouldn't share my feelings with any one else agian.

I feel bad for you ; thankfully I have people around me who will let me be F.

 

[The Third Rider]

I feel bad for you ; thankfully I have people around me who will let me be F.

Thanks. My best friend is an ENTj and he doesn't really understand feelings too well and very few people earn enough of my trust to talk to them about my innerself.

 

[runvardh]

Thanks. My best friend is an ENTj and he doesn't really understand feelings too well and very few people earn enough of my trust to talk to them about my innerself.

I have an ISTJ who has known me for a decade and makes a pretty good effort to be understanding. More of my circle consists of an ISFP, an ESFP, my ISFP little brother, and my INFP father. I also have an ENTJ friend who has an ENFP b/f and he and I talk a lot. It's actually pretty nice; we even have hugs as common currency amung us crazies (the ISTJ and ENTJ also participate in this).

 

[Eileen]

I happen to love an ENFJ. But here are my complaints:

Bossy.
Critical.

 

[The Third Rider]

I happen to love an ENFJ. But here are my complaints:

Bossy.
Critical.

Well I can be bossy, but what do you mean critical?

 

[Xander]

Hating an ENFJ.... too far but being irritated enough by one to wish them to leave my company... all too easy.

# Taking over.
If I'm doing something then I will assign you a task when I need you. I do not require you to try to usurp my control of the project and especially object when you do this whilst employing manipulation of my emotions so that I cannot criticise nor redirect you without landing myself in the whole "bad man" situation.

# Thinking that emotional intensity is equal to need.
Personally I find that weighing up need is quite easy and no restating your wants ten times will not readdress the balance of your needs. Go find someone more pliable to try and fox with your emphatic statements.

#3 Repetition.
Restating the same thing over and over again will not improve my recollection of it and nor will it impress more the tenth time than the first. I dislike having to wade through the immense social network descriptions that you see as necessary to every tale, even less so when it is retold again and again.

# Mighty strops make rights.
Being pissed off is no real validation for doing whatever you like. Rationality is always expected, even if they've just crossed the line.

# A "people person"
Yes you may well be surrounded by thrity or so friends everyday of the week and yes they may well sing your praises but no that does not mean that I will automatically accept you as an authority on people and most certainly not an authority on myself and my own wants, needs and emotions. You may well believe that you know more about my emotional state than I do but I'm telling you your wrong.

# Paranoia is not fact
The number of times I've seen an ENFJ see a network of conspirators and then set themselves for a new quest based upon nothing more than that set of assumptions and paranoid conclusions is not really a rationale nor justified reaction. Oh and no it doesn't mean you can pull the "I know people" line and expect that to validate your paranoia.

I'd have to say that ENFJs, as with ENFPs, seem to always go between 1 and 11 on scales of response without even considering anything in between.

 

[Atomic Fiend]

I don't hate ENFJs, but the one I know is really persistent in trying to get me to stay after school for a Christian club. After staying once I decided, no it's okay, I would rather not stay in school longer than I have to. I eventually told him how I felt and his response was to try to guilt me into staying. Cause thats what Jesus would do.

This went on for weeks.
One day he caught me at a very bad time, and me not feeling like dealing with him at that particular moment answered with an emotionally charged "No. Why? Because I don't want to spend extra time in a place I hate to do something I do every Sunday!" Why did I give such a sharp tongued answer? Because he didn't listen to me when I said I didn't wanna stay earlier , and after that point realizing that I couldn't rationally talk to the guy, coupled on with him being really annoying, I had to let him have it, or else he would've been bugging me forever

Other than that he's a really nice guy, I like him and all, he's just to pushy for my taste.

 

[Varelse]

# A "people person"
Yes you may well be surrounded by thrity or so friends everyday of the week and yes they may well sing your praises but no that does not mean that I will automatically accept you as an authority on people and most certainly not an authority on myself and my own wants, needs and emotions. You may well believe that you know more about my emotional state than I do but I'm telling you your wrong.

I've gotten all of those, but this is the one that annoyed me.

 

[LadyJaye]

I'd have to say that ENFJs, as with ENFPs, seem to always go between 1 and 11 on scales of response without even considering anything in between.

Well, that was painting with such a broad brush, I would hardly consider that to be a defined opinion. That would be like me saying, " Well, all INTP's are self involved robots who irritate over the smallest minute of human behaviors."

A bit broad, wouldn't you say?


On the ENFJ topic, I generally enjoy them a great deal, provided they aren't going in to charismatic overload. Fortunately, my sister doesn't have this problem, but we also have a male ENFJ friend, and he frequently runs over people verbally when he's feeling impatient. I consider that to be bullying, and it has ended in arguments before.

 

[The Third Rider]

I don't hate ENFJs, but the one I know is really persistent in trying to get me to stay after school for a Christian club. After staying once I decided, no it's okay, I would rather not stay in school longer than I have to. I eventually told him how I felt and his response was to try to guilt me into staying. Cause thats what Jesus would do.

This went on for weeks.
One day he caught me at a very bad time, and me not feeling like dealing with him at that particular moment answered with an emotionally charged "No. Why? Because I don't want to spend extra time in a place I hate to do something I do every Sunday!" Why did I give such a sharp tongued answer? Because he didn't listen to me when I said I didn't wanna stay earlier , and after that point realizing that I couldn't rationally talk to the guy, coupled on with him being really annoying, I had to let him have it, or else he would've been bugging me forever

Other than that he's a really nice guy, I like him and all, he's just to pushy for my taste.

Hey I don't blame you I have had quite a few Christians force me to listen to their teachings and force me to go to their church. I am not sure whether people understand that some of us simply don't want to attend their meetings they can get really annoying. Hey if he doesn't listen give it to him.

 

[Xander]

Well, that was painting with such a broad brush, I would hardly consider that to be a defined opinion. That would be like me saying, " Well, all INTP's are self involved robots who irritate over the smallest minute of human behaviors."

A bit broad, wouldn't you say?


On the ENFJ topic, I generally enjoy them a great deal, provided they aren't going in to charismatic overload. Fortunately, my sister doesn't have this problem, but we also have a male ENFJ friend, and he frequently runs over people verbally when he's feeling impatient. I consider that to be bullying, and it has ended in arguments before.

Both statements are fine. You see I'm supposed to be critical here as it's about negatives (I'd hold off of hate generally...tooo showy for my tastes) and I'm not speaking about an ENFP/ENFJ only the type. The only people who should worry are those to whom that facet seems relevant...and no that's not supposed to be a sly accusation.

However if you are THE ENFP and not just AN ENFP can you tell my ENFP mate so he feels less need to be THE ENFP

I did not mean to puncture anyone's spirit but I was being deliberately negative. I could list the positives but you'd get all big headed and this isn't the thread for it

 

[LadyJaye]

Both statements are fine. You see I'm supposed to be critical here as it's about negatives (I'd hold off of hate generally...tooo showy for my tastes) and I'm not speaking about an ENFP/ENFJ only the type. The only people who should worry are those to whom that facet seems relevant...and no that's not supposed to be a sly accusation.

However if you are THE ENFP and not just AN ENFP can you tell my ENFP mate so he feels less need to be THE ENFP

I did not mean to puncture anyone's spirit but I was being deliberately negative. I could list the positives but you'd get all big headed and this isn't the thread for it

Funny you should mention the phenomenon of "THE ENFP" , as I have, in fact, been THE ENFP for many years around my neck of the woods. I had never met another person of my type until recently, when I made the acquaintance of not only another identical twin, but an ENFP as well! I laughed at myself because I found myself staring intently at her, watching all of her mannerisms, and listening to her word choices, what she found amusing, what angered her - wondering if I this was the way I appeared to others. ( I was pleasantly relieved to discover that I liked her a great deal, no self flattery intended. )

 

[Maverick]

I think it's useful to understand ENFJ's through the Enneagram and the "type 2" they correlate to. At average levels, they are extremely sensitive to any behavior that could hint in the slightest way that you do not like them. They want to be liked and everyone's friend. The moment they think you might not like them, they can turn very nasty.

My relationships with ENFJ's usually went like this:

Phase 1: Mutual admiration, respect and liking - lots of laughs
Phase 2: I offend them in some way by disagreeing with what they did or say, or by forgetting to do something they thought was important... the sort of thing that goes completely unseen between two T's...
Phase 3: They turn bitchy/mean (and think I'll respect them more for it, which is wrong)
Phase 4: I ignore them

In the Enneagram, type 2's go to 8 when they are stressed.

Dominant Fi types, in my experience at least, don't turn bitchy/mean when you disagree with them or forget about something. They try to understand things from your point of view first.

 

[substitute]

My relationships with ENFJ's usually went like this:

Phase 1: Mutual admiration, respect and liking - lots of laughs
Phase 2: I offend them in some way by disagreeing with what they did or say, or by forgetting to do something they thought was important... the sort of thing that goes completely unseen between two T's...
Phase 3: They turn bitchy/mean (and think I'll respect them more for it, which is wrong)
Phase 4: I ignore them

Yes, exactly the same here. Except that because I suffer from self-doubt quite a lot, I often find it hard to get onto phase 4.

It's actually been pretty powerful for me to read this thread. One of the tactics they use on me is to make me doubt and hate myself, make me believe I'm a crazy asshole, get everyone on their side and sorta 'remove' me from any means of getting things into their proper perspective so that there's only them 'feeding' me with their 'reality'. Psychological abuse, basically.

To see other people feeling the same way I've felt so often, seeing the same reaction here from some of the ENFJ's and seeing it rebutted by others with the same things I often think, it's been quite moving for me. Honestly, I feel like an abused wife at a support meeting, being told for the first time that it's okay to feel angry and upset when someone beats you up for burning the dinner!!

 

[Xander]

Funny you should mention the phenomenon of "THE ENFP" , as I have, in fact, been THE ENFP for many years around my neck of the woods. I had never met another person of my type until recently, when I made the acquaintance of not only another identical twin, but an ENFP as well! I laughed at myself because I found myself staring intently at her, watching all of her mannerisms, and listening to her word choices, what she found amusing, what angered her - wondering if I this was the way I appeared to others. ( I was pleasantly relieved to discover that I liked her a great deal, no self flattery intended. )

I think that's where ENFPs differ from ENFJs. Almost all of them are not dislikable...it's just that some are too much and you get rid of them anyway

Mind you I've yet to meet an ENFJ (or ENFP for that matter) who I didn't get on with for most of the time.

I have just thought of a new bitch though...
When asking an ENFJ for an idea NOT relating to people, emotions or frippery you tend to either get "that one" a response which they took soooo much time thinking over they responded before the question was finished or you get "meh" which is annoying enough from a fellow NT but this time you know it's because they just aren't bothered!!!

[Yes I realise the whole 'but you do this when we talk about people, emotions and "frippery"' that's why I have sympathy. Does stop it being annoying though. Sometimes I want input and not just an answer or a blank face!!]

 

[Maverick]

Yes, exactly the same here. Except that because I suffer from self-doubt quite a lot, I often find it hard to get onto phase 4.

It's actually been pretty powerful for me to read this thread. One of the tactics they use on me is to make me doubt and hate myself, make me believe I'm a crazy asshole, get everyone on their side and sorta 'remove' me from any means of getting things into their proper perspective so that there's only them 'feeding' me with their 'reality'. Psychological abuse, basically.

To see other people feeling the same way I've felt so often, seeing the same reaction here from some of the ENFJ's and seeing it rebutted by others with the same things I often think, it's been quite moving for me. Honestly, I feel like an abused wife at a support meeting, being told for the first time that it's okay to feel angry and upset when someone beats you up for burning the dinner!!

Oh yeah, I definitely relate.

When you think about it, the ENFJ strategy to life is a clever and deceptive one. They make themselves needed by doing things for others. Everybody starts thinking they're extremely nice and caring. However, there is subtle emotional blackmail involved: "I'll be nice to you as long as you'll be nice to me, or else you'll see my wrath". The ENFJ can be placed in a position with many friends, then proceed to turn them against anyone who threatens them by gossiping and making them swallow their view. You are then depicted as a bad person for x, y and z reasons... even though before the problem you were described as completely awesome (and it only needed one disagreement for you to be the devil incarnate).