[ENFJ] Hate an ENFJ? Tell us why!

[Mempy]

I guess you could call me an Emo kid

It's funny that you say that, because my ENFJ friend calls herself emo all the time! Hehe.

She's working forty hours a week as a waitress and taking twelve credit hours at the same time! Holy Jesus! Is this a prescription for disaster or what? She's doing poorly in all her classes and failing one. She doesn't have time for herself.

L4, I can understand that it's difficult to talk freely and honestly when so many people are watching! It's endearing that you're unsure of yourself but willing to put yourself out there anyway.

For some reason it's easy for me to believe that I am a horrible human being and people who know me just don't see it.

I do think this is the source of most, if not all, of my ENFJ friend's problems. It's the source of my problems too. When I don't feel good about myself, I don't feel confident. End of discussion. When I'm not confident, I typically become counter-phobic, for example putting myself out there just to show myself I'm not scared, which usually ends up in me becoming an exaggeration of my real self, or a plain old ass. Another option is that I withdraw from the world. Neither are good. Neither are liberating or happy. I wish I could always be with my confidence. I'm INFP, btw.

Mempy, you friend may be feeling strains of this which is why she's reluctant to open up to you. Obviously she's in a very bad place and will probably need lots of patience and time to open up.

I don't know that we'll ever be close friend or truly connect. I'm not even going for that. I would like to see her happy, and I'd like her to know I care. I'll let the friendship unfold or cave in as it will. If she feels comfortable opening up to me some day, I will appreciate her openness and bravery. I know that it takes courage to bear yourself to others.

The runners super appreciated the ridiculous encouragement, too, which only further increased how high he was jumping and how loud he was cheering.

That's pretty cute! LOL.

But, what I don't understand, is why he didn't feel comfortable enough to do that in the first place. Do you guys feel that you have to shut out a part of yourselves to be accepted? Do any other ENFJs feel like they can't be themselves around others? Was this simply an age thing for him?

When you don't think you're awesome, it hampers your confidence. That's been my experience. If you don't have internal support, there is nothing to sustain you when all else falls away, and nothing to give you courage in the face of possible unacceptance or rejection.

 

[Littlelostnf]

Okay: new subject matter.

Once upon a time I knew this male ENFJ. I did not know about MBTI at the time, although I was months away from learning. We had only met a few months earlier, but it was on my gap year program so living together 24/7 you grow to know each other pretty quickly. He was 18 I was 19.

He and I were stationed at a marathon together to be the flag-waving guides and traffic barrier people at one of the many intersections in the marathon (in Seattle). We were awfully cold so we were jumping around and goofing off a bit to keep warm and entertain ourselves. By 7 am or so, it was starting to warm up and I noticed that he was getting goofier. I thought to myself, this made no sense. We started ridiculously early in the morning while we were cold and tired, so goofiness in that situation is to be expected. But getting goofier as the day warmed and we woke up more?

Eventually, we started cheering for the marathon racers that were beginning to make it as far as our station. He started getting ridiculously excited and was screaming so loudly and cheering soo ridiculously well for every runner coming our way, I was just baffled but thought it was cute to see him so into it. (Cute in a non-crush way). The runners super appreciated the ridiculous encouragement, too, which only further increased how high he was jumping and how loud he was cheering.

Months later, he told me that day was important to him because it was the first time on the program he felt he could fully be himself. He said I let him be himself and he tremendously valued that.

But, what I don't understand, is why he didn't feel comfortable enough to do that in the first place. Do you guys feel that you have to shut out a part of yourselves to be accepted? Do any other ENFJs feel like they can't be themselves around others? Was this simply an age thing for him?

Well this sort of goes back to what was said earlier. I think because ENFJ's are so aware of others feelings when they (even if only slightly) show a part of themselves that people haven't seen before (something where another person might be entirely unaware of the looks or surprise of those around them) the ENFJ is painfully aware of it. If we're with someone who allows us to be ourselves without judging our actions (simply because they've never seen that side of us before) it's much easier to be yourself. It's not hard to figure out (for me) what people expect from me and how they expect me to respond. I personally got past the wanting to ALWAYS present myself a certain way when I learned fairly early on...it doesn't matter how you present yourself people take it the way they want and make judgments about you true or untrue and there is NOTHING much you can do about it. That was sort of freeing for me. While I care about others feelings and try not to do things to offend or cause controversy...I will never go against how I feel or not do something I think is right to make someone else comfortable. I just think about what I'll say or do longer so it comes out as palatable for the other person as possible. Does any of this make sense? It's EARLY am and I just opened my window to the first snow of the season and I'm REALLY excited. If there is something that makes no sense...let me know and I'll attempt to explain further...right now I'm making some coffee and heading out to make "first tracks"

for SNOW!!!!

 

[Valiant]

I hate an ENFJ girl, she's got a TON of phobies wich makes her act very crazy.
And she can't stick to reality for more than a few minutes each time. She overwhelms everybody with maniac plans and ideas, with totally no sense of what is possible, and if you don't agree with her she becomes very, very hostile.
She's the most annoying person I have ever met, in a weird way. Because at the same time she gets into your heart by being cute sometimes. It really sucks.

 

[Gabe]

I think it's useful to understand ENFJ's through the Enneagram and the "type 2" they correlate to. At average levels, they are extremely sensitive to any behavior that could hint in the slightest way that you do not like them. They want to be liked and everyone's friend. The moment they think you might not like them, they can turn very nasty.

My relationships with ENFJ's usually went like this:

Phase 1: Mutual admiration, respect and liking - lots of laughs
Phase 2: I offend them in some way by disagreeing with what they did or say, or by forgetting to do something they thought was important... the sort of thing that goes completely unseen between two T's...
Phase 3: They turn bitchy/mean (and think I'll respect them more for it, which is wrong)
Phase 4: I ignore them

In the Enneagram, type 2's go to 8 when they are stressed.

Dominant Fi types, in my experience at least, don't turn bitchy/mean when you disagree with them or forget about something. They try to understand things from your point of view first.

Of course nothing you described is particularily "ENFJ" about thier behavior, so what's the point? (this goes for the rest of the thread!)

 

[Mempy]

Hmm...

Just to add some insight to his post, I'm an INFP and type two. It is very true that I, as a two, go to eight when stressed. In fact, an eight's traits are always a part of my personality - aggressiveness, pride, coersion, force, loud antagonizing - but I try not to get so unhealthy that they ever really dominate. But it's true that the worse I get, the more they dominate. It's also happened before, and I know I didn't make any friends in that part of my life.

You're also right that when someone disagrees, I rarely even care. But that's after developing myself as a person a bit. I used to fear people disagreeing strongly with me, because to me it used to indicate some kind of flaw with my character. I now see there's no such correlation, and can usually keep my cool and argue almost any point satisfactorily. Then again, my confidence comes and goes.

My ENFJ friend is either a two like me, or a one. I've narrowed it down to those two types. If she were a two, I think we'd have a lot more in common, and I think we'd connect on a deep level. We don't, so I'm betting she's a one.

 

[theshadow]

But, what I don't understand, is why he didn't feel comfortable enough to do that in the first place. Do you guys feel that you have to shut out a part of yourselves to be accepted? Do any other ENFJs feel like they can't be themselves around others? Was this simply an age thing for him?

I usually feel like this and often have the hardest time really letting go. I want to be there so much for people, usually it feels like they need something other than myself. even though this secretly hurts me I would never admit it. I have tried with close freinds but they dont talk to me anymore. I am completely aware the next major milestone in my personal growth is going to be finding away to accept myself but even knowing this doesn't change anything. "thats what it feels like atleast" mostly like I am souless. and even if I tried I probably will never have the same kinda depth I see in others.... wow ok this is getting way to personal for me im going to have to stop.

I once had a gf that let me have a similar experience. It was at a concert. unfortunately she didnt respect my emotional nature and instead decided it was best to us that to control me. kinda..... I knew . but let her because I really appreciated her for the things she tought me about myself.

i thought I would ask to hear someone say they can relate to what i have said.:smiley_violin: enfj's? but then realized just how petty I was being

 

[wedekit]

I can't say ANYTHING bad about ENFJs. I can say plenty of bad stuff about INFJs (my type), but for some reason some of the most absolutely amazing people I have met were ENFJ's.

 

[armstrongvk12]

I hate an ENFJ girl, she's got a TON of phobies wich makes her act very crazy.
And she can't stick to reality for more than a few minutes each time. She overwhelms everybody with maniac plans and ideas, with totally no sense of what is possible, and if you don't agree with her she becomes very, very hostile.

I know an ENFJ girl just like the one you described. Unfortunately....she has hooked up with an INTP (AD/HD, clinical depression & narcissistic personality disorder)....got pregnant (for the second time to a man she was not married to!)....and is now going to get married to him. BTW...she just quit her job....the wedding is in April and baby in August....and the "fiance" has not paid his property taxes for two years. ENFJ girl..."may" need reality checks in my estimation.

 

[MetalWounds]

I must say that of any type, the ENFJ annoys me more than any other. To start, they naturally "get" people, if you then combine this with any degree of intelligence, you are left with someone with an uncannily successful ability to manipulate others. Being an INTJ I am naturally unaffected, however, I frustratingly watch others bend and crumble to them. Now, perhaps what bothers me most about this type is the utter disregard for anything rational that happens to oppose their personal beliefs at the moment. If you are anything less than dogmatically supportive of what they tout as their higher moral cause, you are instantly labeled as an inherently evil person. Logically and rationally arguing with them is perceived as a personal attack, to which they will hatefully attack you, ignoring the obvious truth of the situation.

 

[theshadow]

I must say that of any type, the ENFJ annoys me more than any other. To start, they naturally "get" people, if you then combine this with any degree of intelligence, you are left with someone with an uncannily successful ability to manipulate others. Being an INTJ I am naturally unaffected, however, I frustratingly watch others bend and crumble to them. Now, perhaps what bothers me most about this type is the utter disregard for anything rational that happens to oppose their personal beliefs at the moment. If you are anything less than dogmatically supportive of what they tout as their higher moral cause, you are instantly labeled as an inherently evil person. Logically and rationally arguing with them is perceived as a personal attack, to which they will hatefully attack you, ignoring the obvious truth of the situation.

whats that cute little intj. do you need a hug ..... jk I appreciate your perspective when someone says that deosnt make sense. and then explains it with more persanable terms. ex how it beniftis others than I am much more likely to hear you out. also I have a friend that is an intj so its cool. Maybe its just me but My hardend Fe looks quite similar to Te so I very often have intj's and estj's that think they are connecting with me. also it sounds like yours is paticluraly vicious "a female? maybe". :steam: when I am very angry though I do have a tendancy to go striaght for the emotional stability of the other person. or whatever looks weakest. I have been know to attack faulty logic in my angry attempts to undermins others. this usually only happens to work consistently with weak T''s such as many infp's. and only If I am also concurrently attacking there values. I suppose this works this way on infp/enfj's has to do with the fact that we usually use logic to support are stance. so when you call us illogical it 'feels' like you are calling us wrong... which if course you are

anyway thank you very much for that guys lets keep them comeing. im not that easy to hurt ....... JK

 

[armstrongvk12]

they naturally "get" people, if you then combine this with any degree of intelligence, you are left with someone with an uncannily successful ability to manipulate others...I frustratingly watch others bend and crumble to them....the utter disregard for anything rational that happens to oppose their personal beliefs at the moment...Logically and rationally arguing with them is perceived as a personal attack

Your experience is the same experience I have had with an ENFJ.

 

[MetalWounds]

Uh huh...you ask "a female maybe?", but I believe you already know the answer to that...I suppose if I were to offer a more tolerable opinion, I would say that, an ENFJ will reach the same conclusion as myself, however, based on feelings. To which I can credit little belief in as more than a coincidence. I suppose that you will then imply that I relinquish this opinion based on previous experience of an emotional level, which in turn is indicative of myself acting on the same level as my prior analysis of an ENTJ. Believe me that it is not.

 

[armstrongvk12]

Uh huh...you ask "a female maybe?", but I believe you already know the answer to that...I suppose if I were to offer a more tolerable opinion, I would say that, an ENFJ will reach the same conclusion as myself, however, based on feelings. To which I can credit little belief in as more than a coincidence. I suppose that you will then imply that I relinquish this opinion based on previous experience of an emotional level, which in turn is indicative of myself acting on the same level as my prior analysis of an ENTJ. Believe me that it is not.

I assumed that your description was of a female ENFJ (as was my experience). As an NT, I think one can observe behaviors just as well (if not better) as experiencing the behaviors emotionally. INTJs especially seem be really good at pinpointing exact behaviors, motivations, etc....since they are so detail oriented.

 

[MetalWounds]

Well, though you are correct in that NTs tend to meticulously break down intentions, my post was directed to a comment made by "theshadow".
You are spot on with your analysis however, and I apologize for any confusion.

 

[armstrongvk12]

Well, though you are correct in that NTs tend to meticulously break down intentions, my post was directed to a comment made by "theshadow".
You are spot on with your analysis however, and I apologize for any confusion.

No worries! I wasn't sure because there wasn't a quote, but it was directly after my post.

 

[MetalWounds]

That is understandable, as you post appeared directly after mine, and as I was typing it. I'm sure we can, however, share a mutual disdain for ENFJs...

 

[Domino]

I'm more determined than ever now to start a cult.

Paraguay looks smashing.

 

[proteanmix]

I must say that of any type, the ENFJ annoys me more than any other. To start, they naturally "get" people, if you then combine this with any degree of intelligence, you are left with someone with an uncannily successful ability to manipulate others. Being an INTJ I am naturally unaffected, however, I frustratingly watch others bend and crumble to them. Now, perhaps what bothers me most about this type is the utter disregard for anything rational that happens to oppose their personal beliefs at the moment. If you are anything less than dogmatically supportive of what they tout as their higher moral cause, you are instantly labeled as an inherently evil person. Logically and rationally arguing with them is perceived as a personal attack, to which they will hatefully attack you, ignoring the obvious truth of the situation.

I think you have the hawts for an ENFJ. Your first four posts and you go right for the Hate an ENFJ thread? You were wounded to the core by one of my comrades weren't you?

INTJs immune? lolz.

 

[theshadow]

Uh huh...you ask "a female maybe?", but I believe you already know the answer to that...I suppose if I were to offer a more tolerable opinion, I would say that, an ENFJ will reach the same conclusion as myself, however, based on feelings. To which I can credit little belief in as more than a coincidence. I suppose that you will then imply that I relinquish this opinion based on previous experience of an emotional level, which in turn is indicative of myself acting on the same level as my prior analysis of an ENTJ. Believe me that it is not.

but i believe......

excuse me for not appearing certain to the magnanimous intj. however as you said. I felt confident about that.

To which I can credit little belief in as more than a coincidence.

I really must be one lucky kinda person I am granted the ability to have logical coincidences. cute I understand this rationalization it might help you to remember though "just in case " that inteligence often overcomes such areas. SO what if its because it "feels" right

I suppose that you will then imply that I relinquish this opinion based on previous experience of an emotional level

nah this response seems more Fi'sh. I dont doubt your type yet. intj's are not heartless by anymeans. they just dont like to let "think" there emotions guide them

which in turn is indicative of myself acting on the same level as my prior analysis of an ENTJ. Believe me that it is not.

ummm.. I am going to assume you meant ENFJ here. . also you are way to mechanichal to give me the vibe of an enfj. I can in fact emulate that but it still doesnt appear to be based off of Fi like yours

a more tolerable opinion,

it was just fine if I wanted to get into a mudslinging contest I would ask you just how many times you have actually had sex?"or any other thing that might make you appear incompetant compared to me." but thats not what Im looking to do. this thread is to hate on us enfj's

Believe me that it is not.

so you mean to say that if I dissagread with you. you wouldt feel indignant? even a little?

I suppose that you will then imply that I relinquish this opinion based on previous experience of an emotional level

right.... I dont dare try and argue with an intj. its so futile! hahahahaha also "you can honestly say you used "more tolerable" just for laughps and giggles right?" I can see that this might have simply been an attempt to appeal to me. in which case it worked. but still if not. what was the purpose of this sympathy? in order to deny it was an emotional motivation entirely would you not need to have atleast something you were expecting in return? (perhaps this response was exactly what you had in mind) also I could see that expecting a response to you would mean picking it apart... so here you go tell me what you think of my perfect logic..........

Oh anyway. im curious. and would like to hear some of the specific tactics you watched your maniacal enfj employ.

 

[MetalWounds]

I think you have the hawts for an ENFJ. Your first four posts and you go right for the Hate an ENFJ thread? You were wounded to the core by one of my comrades weren't you?

INTJs immune? lolz.

An attempt to pick at my emotions, of course, and predictable in nature. You only affirm my previous judgment.