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  1. #211
    unscannable Tigerlily's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YourLocalJesus View Post
    I hate an ENFJ girl, she's got a TON of phobies wich makes her act very crazy.
    And she can't stick to reality for more than a few minutes each time. She overwhelms everybody with maniac plans and ideas, with totally no sense of what is possible, and if you don't agree with her she becomes very, very hostile.
    She's the most annoying person I have ever met, in a weird way. Because at the same time she gets into your heart by being cute sometimes. It really sucks.
    Sounds like she just needs some Prozac.
    Time is a delicate mistress.

  2. #212
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by armstrongvk12 View Post
    Ah.....then it seems like the difference between ENFJ and say ENTJ (since we are the two vacillaters)...would be that the F makes people the center...and the T makes the problem/solution/goal the center? Also...for the most part, I am good at ignoring people if need be....which is a LOT of the time when I am teaching. Yes...to the manipulation which is SO hurtful with those you love. I find that I can be part of the whole, but I will be the star as well, if necessary. Especially...if I think that the "star" is incapable. I like to people watch, but find myself people directing more often due to my work.
    Nightning explained this once to me -- ENTJs are different motivator, same approach (while an INFJ, to an ENFJ, would be same motivator, different approach).

    My best girlfriend, as I mentioned, is an ENTJ in spades. We frequently have what we call "viking berserker" moments, where someone will do something rotten and we'll both have the same reaction - "He needed killin'!" (to rip off Strom Thurmond, Sr. ) But Athena reacts to a violation of the system, while I react to the violation of the individual. We both HATE HATE HATE injustice which is like a ig cosmic stick poking at us, but Athena can usually remain calm about it (while being angry) and I go human torch.

    She's very much Queen Elizabeth. I'm more Boudicca. Ahee! (Bad example... )

    And you're welcome to hang around as long as you like, Metal. We'll carefully mash you under glass slides and pull at your cilia with pipettes and remark about the marvelous fluorescing that occurs when bombarded with low level x-radiation!
    eNFJ 4w3 sx/so 468 tritype
    Neutral Good
    EII-Fi subtype, Ethical/Empath, Delta/Beta
    RLUEI, Choleric/Melancholic
    Inquistive/Limbic
    AIS Holland code
    Researcher: VDI-P
    Dramatic>Sensitive>Serious

  3. #213
    More human than human MetalWounds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jen View Post
    lol, maybe. Thanks to my forwardness I'll be forever typed an ENFJ.
    Maybe...?
    I'm doing science and I'm still alive

  4. #214
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    Totally! That song they did with Dusty Springfield is great!

    (And you are so not spewing ENFJ hate... where's the hate, woman?!)

    You know what I hate about ENFJs? We're right. All the time. It's a horrible burden. My weighty massive brain frequently drags the ground.

    It's truly a point of suffering.
    eNFJ 4w3 sx/so 468 tritype
    Neutral Good
    EII-Fi subtype, Ethical/Empath, Delta/Beta
    RLUEI, Choleric/Melancholic
    Inquistive/Limbic
    AIS Holland code
    Researcher: VDI-P
    Dramatic>Sensitive>Serious

  5. #215
    filling some space UnitOfPopulation's Avatar
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    I'll respond to thread topic, if you don't mind..

    I had an ENFJ friend, one of my best friends at the time.. at one point he wanted to recruit me somewhere I wasn't sure of belonging in. He became increasingly unhappy of me.. perhaps he thought we'd be better friends working in the same place, or then perhaps our friendship was based on him "headhunting" a talented young man in his company.

    This ENFJ..
    -Gave delightful presentations, wonderful speeches, etc. Truly. I just loved that style. It didn't always work quite well, but usually it did!
    -most often speedily steered away from logic.
    -thought that logic was somehow subservient to what he wants. This is the greatest insult to human intelligence there is. I mean, a man can decide to do what their emotions suggest, rather than to follow their head. But c'mon.. he thought he could single-handedly defeat universal, all-encompassing logic in the whole world for all eternity if he just didn't like the sound of the idea. There was no "agreeing to disagree". There was no mediating. There was no recognizing of multiple options. This mind-numbingly insulting abuse of logic surfaced only now and then, and it was funny enough to ignore for the most part. After he got the clue that he's not recruiting me, this kind of behavior increased.
    -sophisticated and knowledgeable about many fields
    -multitalented
    -absolutely great company, could find an interesting angle from anything, and it didn't mean a bit that he didn't know many things in practice
    -system planning view over organization

    There are much more graceful ways to handle sucking in one aspect of thinking than what he used. You can suck in some skill, but it takes special to skill to become a sucker. I mean, some people may sing badly, but not everyone goes proudly to Idols preliminaries only to get themselves laughed off from the studio. It takes superior ignorance and boastful, unfounded arrogance to believe being "okay" when they are among the worst examples of horrid performers.

    This is what I hate about that ENFJ, tho I don't hate HIM. Other ENFJ, ESFJ probably have similar problem spots.

    Point of advice: no matter how good you are in your own game, don't expect to fool an expert in THEIR game, if you're an amateur. It is really baffling to see even an attempt of the kind. Avoid the game. Surrender. Change the rules. Do whatever else you can. But don't, don't, DON'T try to win vastly better players in their own game by cheating. You know, if they're experts, they'll see if you're playing by the rules or not.

    Baseball player can tell whether it's ok to play with 3 balls at one time.

    Texas Hold'em player knows if there should be joker's in the deck.

    What a sad end of friendship with this master manipulator.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  6. #216
    Senior Member theshadow's Avatar
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    There are much more graceful ways to handle sucking in one aspect of thinking than what he used. You can suck in some skill, but it takes special to skill to become a sucker. I mean, some people may sing badly, but not everyone goes proudly to Idols preliminaries only to get themselves laughed off from the studio. It takes superior ignorance and boastful, unfounded arrogance to believe being "okay" when they are among the worst examples of horrid performers.
    In a stange way I can see how my behavior could be seen like that. I often enjoy performing just for performing sake. even if I am terrible its fun to get up there and "go down in flames" and then Even if I completely sucked and new it. I would content knowing that what I did was possibly the worst attempt at "whatever" the person had probably seen and if nothing else my ridiculous "false confidence" would let that person feel superior "good". so it serves a double purpose. I enjoy performing. and I enjoy making people laugh.

    then perhaps our friendship was based on him "headhunting" a talented young man in his company.
    Perhaps it was because He really believed you were the one that should hold that position.

    I had an ENFJ friend, one of my best friends at the time.. at one point he wanted to recruit me somewhere I wasn't sure of belonging in. He became increasingly unhappy of me.
    ok. here is what I hear. he felt sure you would enjoy doing whatever. and just thought you didnt realize it. so was going to help you discover what you actually liked doing. "not that this is the right way to do things but when I see an entp I usually recognize the unique intelligence and think all they lack is a drive/ purpose. soothing they believed in doing...... I realize this isnt entp's way.. but still. thats how I often feel about them"

    There was no "agreeing to disagree". There was no mediating. There was no recognizing of multiple options. This mind-numbingly insulting abuse of logic surfaced only now and then, and it was funny enough to ignore for the most part. After he got the clue that he's not recruiting me, this kind of behavior increased.
    this seems really strange to me. I often dont agree with people.. but I rarely think its necessary to let them know. also. basicily when you said no. You automatically raised you "value". this is a normal human response. thats why when you try and break up with someone often they go crazy for you."mind numbing logic? hahhaha Its is a true statement though" actually this lines up with my previous thoughts. He probably was trying to help you. and thought he knew what you needed to think. which seems really strange I know. but still.

    Point of advice: no matter how good you are in your own game, don't expect to fool an expert in THEIR game, if you're an amateur. It is really baffling to see even an attempt of the kind. Avoid the game. Surrender. Change the rules. Do whatever else you can. But don't, don't, DON'T try to win vastly better players in their own game by cheating. You know, if they're experts, they'll see if you're playing by the rules or not.

    Baseball player can tell whether it's ok to play with 3 balls at one time.

    Texas Hold'em player knows if there should be joker's in the deck.

    What a sad end of friendship with this master manipulator.
    in my experience Nt care a great deal about competency. people will often assume your comptentcy if you act confidently. so to me I get the response I was looking for and dont really care about why. even if it makes me look like a fool. basicly of all parts of my personality I really dont mind dumping on Thinking. so..... also. this could be used manipulativey... such as in cheating so I definatly dont condone that.

  7. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by PinkPiranha View Post
    We both HATE HATE HATE injustice which is like a ig cosmic stick poking at us, but Athena can usually remain calm about it (while being angry) and I go human torch.
    She's very much Queen Elizabeth. I'm more Boudicca. Ahee! (Bad example... )
    Okay...so I AM probably more like Athena since Elizabeth (the first, I assume??) is my FAVORITE woman in history, followed closely of course, by Boudicca (I have a pic of her statue near Westminster I'll have to find). I do remain calm while angry, but if you fuck with me....I'll take you out and I rarely go human torch. I guess I'm more of a liberal field marshall...a cross between Margaret Thatcher and Al Gore. For whatever the reason....I seem to be able to raise an army at a moment's notice. God only knows why anyone would follow me ANYwhere, but it seems to happen...and it is not always welcomed.

  8. #218
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    My sister's one, and I really hate how she uses patterns of reasoning I agree with in broken ways... ie ways that are totally unrelated to the line of reasoning that I use to justify things... It's like she's a version of me that's somehow even more coldhearted than I am in a very manipulative and cruel way. She ignores everything that is contra to her point, and supports just about anything that could possibly support her point. Sometimes I agree with her, and sometimes I couldn't fathom any way that anyone would believe what she believes w/o wanting to believe it for the sole purpose of trying to hurt someone or win on some stupid point.

  9. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kanamori View Post
    My sister's one, and I really hate how she uses patterns of reasoning I agree with in broken ways... ie ways that are totally unrelated to the line of reasoning that I use to justify things... It's like she's a version of me that's somehow even more coldhearted than I am in a very manipulative and cruel way. She ignores everything that is contra to her point, and supports just about anything that could possibly support her point. Sometimes I agree with her, and sometimes I couldn't fathom any way that anyone would believe what she believes w/o wanting to believe it for the sole purpose of trying to hurt someone or win on some stupid point.
    Of course I don't know your sister, but I think I can see what you are saying. There were a few posts previously where the ENFJ poster tried to use logic (which there was very little at best), but the feeble logic that was used...had a lot emotionality attached to it. In fact the only reason the poster was commenting was to hurt others.

  10. #220
    Senior Member LostInNerSpace's Avatar
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    I don't hate ENFJs, yet. But I am curious to know more about just how an ENFJ might go about manipulating someone. I can be pretty manipulative myself, but only when backed into a corner. I had learn the mechanics of manipulation, and I'll bet my wege pressure point doll (acupuncture doll) enfj's don't take the time to do it that way.

    Can some enlighted with a scenario?

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