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Thread: NF Comedians

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    Allergic to Mornings ergophobe's Avatar
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    Robin Williams, Martin Short, Carol Burnett....just a few ENFP comedians that are mentioned most often. They seem to be able to detach just fine and aren't all feminists, running around supporting causes but with poor humor.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ergophobe View Post
    Robin Williams, Martin Short, Carol Burnett....just a few ENFP comedians that are mentioned most often. They seem to be able to detach just fine and aren't all feminists, running around supporting causes but with poor humor.

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    Like I said, they're funny, but they're not comedians as we typically associate it in the English-speaking world. With the exception of Williams, they're more funny in their other performances than in their words and observations. They're comic performers, not comedians (which is why the word comic is often used to tie the two concepts together).

    Robin Williams is much more of a T than people give him credit for, and his heartfelt stuff is usually Fe-heavy. I think there's just this perception that intuitive thinkers are cold, heartless, sarcastic robots, so anyone who shows a shred of human dignity, or gave a damn about another person or the way injustice in the world harms others is automatically an intuitive feeler.

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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    Like I said, they're funny, but they're not comedians as we typically associate it in the English-speaking world. With the exception of Williams, they're more funny in their other performances than in their words and observations. They're comic performers, not comedians (which is why the word comic is often used to tie the two concepts together).
    Carol Burnett is not a comedian???? She's famous for her sketch comedy and her impressions of people and - I would say that's pretty squarely comedian territory. Her words and observations are not funny? Perhaps this is more about what you may or may not find funny. I'm not sure if there's a larger consensus in the English-speaking world (what other world is being considered here?). What is a typical comedian, in your view? Where do you find this definition?

    A comic actor could be one who does comedic scenes and have good comedic timing but doesn't write a lot of this material himself/herself. All of these people write their own comedy material, have incredible comedic insight and observation on the world they inhabit and are incredibly spontaneous...these are comedians, not just comic actors. Carol Burnett created so many original characters that are based entirely on observations that make good comedians....finding the hilarious in the ordinary.

    Robin Williams is much more of a T than people give him credit for, and his heartfelt stuff is usually Fe-heavy. I think there's just this perception that intuitive thinkers are cold, heartless, sarcastic robots, so anyone who shows a shred of human dignity, or gave a damn about another person or the way injustice in the world harms others is automatically an intuitive feeler.
    Actually these are stereotypes you bring in. Using heartfelt stuff is feeler associated and being able to do comedy with critical/political commentary is more T? What makes Robin Williams more of a T? Why couldn't he be an ENFP? ENFPs can have well-developed Fe, can't they, especially if they're going to make it big in a people-centered profession? Also, I don't think he's that Fe bright If you've seen him perform on any live talk shows, you'll notice he's actually terrible at stopping and listening to the host or knowing when he should just tone it down. He just does his thing....

    The last part is a stereotype that isn't adhered to here or on threads I've seen discussing comedians before. Jim Carey is often quoted as being ENTP and he's hilarious - both as a comic performer and a comedian. I don't think anyone would accuse him or George Carlin of being heartless. They're just funny in a different way. They have different styles of comedy.

    You seem to be adhering, particularly in your remarks on ENFPs here, to more of these stereotypes that you bemoan than others....

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    Quote Originally Posted by ergophobe View Post
    Carol Burnett is not a comedian???? Her words and observations are not funny? Perhaps this is more about what you may or may not find funny. I'm not sure if there's a larger consensus in the English-speaking world (what other world is being considered here?).
    Why do you assume she's an NF? She sounds pretty NT-ish in interviews. Very matter-of-fact about her upbringing, in particular.

    She's funny in her performances, that's why her show was so successful. The words and observations aren't standing on their own, they're part of a funny character. That's the distinction.

    English-speaking non-performance comedy is usually centered around observation, with some word play thrown into the mix.

    Actually these are stereotypes you bring in. Using heartfelt stuff is feeler associated and being able to do comedy with critical/political commentary is more T?
    That was a reference from earlier in the thread, where someone was pointing out how his more dramatic turns were something only an NF could do.

    What makes Robin Williams more of a T? Why couldn't he be an ENFP? ENFPs can have well-developed Fe, can't they, especially if they're going to make it big in a people-centered profession?
    What makes him more of a T? Word play and rapid-fire delivery, along with the things he jokes about in his stand-up.

    Let's also not forget that you don't need a well-developed Fe to make it in show business. How many insufferable prima donna actors have we heard of in our time?

    Also, I don't think he's that Fe bright If you've seen him perform on any live talk shows, you'll notice he's actually terrible at stopping and listening to the host or knowing when he should just tone it down. He just does his thing....
    Any Ne-dominant will do that if you give them the opportunity. Williams certainly is that, no question, maybe more so than 90% of Ne-doms.

    The last part is a stereotype that isn't adhered to here or on threads I've seen discussing comedians before. Jim Carey is often quoted as being ENTP and he's hilarious - both as a comic performer and a comedian. I don't think anyone would accuse him or George Carlin of being heartless. They're just funny in a different way. They have different styles of comedy.
    You've never noticed that subtext? Really? I'm actually very surprised about that - it's pretty pervasive. And I personally would type Carrey as an INFP.

    You seem to be adhering, particularly in your remarks on ENFPs here, to more of these stereotypes that you bemoan than others....
    Nope, just pointing out trends, thank you much. Not "bemoaning" anything.

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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    Why do you assume she's an NF? She sounds pretty NT-ish in interviews. Very matter-of-fact about her upbringing, in particular.
    I didn't assume anything. She's typed as such on the majority of MBTI sites -- typelogic, Personality Desk etc etc...

    She's funny in her performances, that's why her show was so successful. The words and observations aren't standing on their own, they're part of a funny character. That's the distinction.

    English-speaking non-performance comedy is usually centered around observation, with some word play thrown into the mix.
    So, true comedians, in your view, should not have any aspect of performance mixed in with their comedy? They should only be sharing deadpan impressions/observations of the world? This sounds like a very narrow definition of what a comedian is. It doesn't hold. Comedians are connected more to original material rather than the very particular style you mention above. Where is this distinction made outside of your saying so?


    That was a reference from earlier in the thread, where someone was pointing out how his more dramatic turns were something only an NF could do.
    Someone does not equal everyone supporting the stereotype. How are dramatic turns equivalent to pointing to NFs being the only ones capable of compassion and NTs being heartless robots? Still not seeing that connection you made all on your own.

    What makes him more of a T? Word play and rapid-fire delivery, along with the things he jokes about in his stand-up.
    Why are word play and rapid-fire delivery a T preference or skill? So, NFs aren't associated with being quick-witted or able to partake in word-play? Nothing to back that up. What are the 'T' things he jokes about in his stand-up?

    Let's also not forget that you don't need a well-developed Fe to make it in show business. How many insufferable prima donna actors have we heard of in our time?
    Prima donnas and comedians have different ways of 'making it'. As a comedian, it's pretty hard to get a break and I would still contend that some amount of Fe is necessary. Its not looks that are helping comedians make it

    Any Ne-dominant will do that if you give them the opportunity. Williams certainly is that, no question, maybe more so than 90% of Ne-doms.
    He is an Ne dom but Fe, by definition, is listening to and taking into account the needs of others around you. Not paying any attention to that at all points to low Fe. Ne is about making connections - a more tenuous link to his behavior.

    You've never noticed that subtext? Really? I'm actually very surprised about that - it's pretty pervasive. And I personally would type Carrey as an INFP.
    He's typed most often, across the board on MBTI sites, as an ENTP or ENTJ.

    Nope, just pointing out trends, thank you much. Not "bemoaning" anything.
    Of course, my apologies for assuming that there was any complaint in the above. Does that make you of a comedian rather than comic with your ability to detach?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ergophobe View Post
    I didn't assume anything. She's typed as such on the majority of MBTI sites -- typelogic, Personality Desk etc etc...
    They may not be right. Of course, there could be far more than 16 variations in human personality, so none of this is cut in stone.

    So, true comedians, in your view, should not have any aspect of performance mixed in with their comedy? They should only be sharing deadpan impressions/observations of the world? This sounds like a very narrow definition of what a comedian is. It doesn't hold. Comedians are connected more to original material rather than the very particular style you mention above. Where is this distinction made outside of your saying so?
    Sorry, I'm just going to have to claim a sort of Lemon test here - "you know it when you see it". A comedian's funny for the sake of being funny. A comic performer is funny in order to tell a story or convey a broader sense of entertainment. Both often involve the use of original material.

    This has been a fairly common distinction over the last 30 years, where the two genres have drifted apart from their common origins (vaudeville, of course)


    Someone does not equal everyone supporting the stereotype. How are dramatic turns equivalent to pointing to NFs being the only ones capable of compassion and NTs being heartless robots? Still not seeing that connection you made all on your own.
    This is a common subtext that runs throughout conversations here, and was a comment made earlier in the thread ("Williams' dramatic roles were so ENFP"). That's only proof if you believe that ENTPs aren't capable of generating the gravitas necessary for a hard dramatic role.

    Why are word play and rapid-fire delivery a T preference or skill? So, NFs aren't associated with being quick-witted or able to partake in word-play? Nothing to back that up. What are the 'T' things he jokes about in his stand-up?
    His punchlines come from things that logically follow, even if they're weird. NF humor is more personal - it's funny because it's so fucked up. Chappelle's funny because of the things he's seen and gone through. Sandler's funny because you're not "supposed" to be that mad, but everyone does get that mad, so we laugh at the breaking of the social taboo.

    Prima donnas and comedians have different ways of 'making it'. As a comedian, it's pretty hard to get a break and I would still contend that some amount of Fe is necessary. Its not looks that are helping comedians make it
    Which is why it may not be the realm for extroverts without Fe in their base functions.

    He is an Ne dom but Fe, by definition, is listening to and taking into account the needs of others around you. Not paying any attention to that at all points to low Fe. Ne is about making connections - a more tenuous link to his behavior.
    Yeah - he might have just never developed his tertiary. It happens.

    He's typed most often, across the board on MBTI sites, as an ENTP or ENTJ.
    It can be hard to differentiate between someone's stage persona and their actual personality.

    Of course, my apologies for assuming that there was any complaint in the above. Does that make you of a comedian rather than comic with your ability to detach?
    No, it just makes me an NT.

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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    Sorry, I'm just going to have to claim a sort of Lemon test here - "you know it when you see it". A comedian's funny for the sake of being funny. A comic performer is funny in order to tell a story or convey a broader sense of entertainment. Both often involve the use of original material.
    Yeah that's really not a very good distinction, is it? Both are funny for the sake of being funny - if you're pointing to different styles, that may be different but the above does not present a real distinction. Who is a real comedian. Doesn't this real comedian also tell stories?

    This has been a fairly common distinction over the last 30 years, where the two genres have drifted apart from their common origins (vaudeville, of course)
    If it's such a common distinction that has been around for a while, one would think we'd have a better understanding of what makes them different. A real distinction and one that can be backed up by real examples. I'd like to understand this distinction better but don't see it yet with the descriptions you've provided.

    His punchlines come from things that logically follow, even if they're weird. NF humor is more personal - it's funny because it's so fucked up. Chappelle's funny because of the things he's seen and gone through. Sandler's funny because you're not "supposed" to be that mad, but everyone does get that mad, so we laugh at the breaking of the social taboo.
    So now, ENFPs are incapable of detaching from their emotions even for professional purposes (comedy would be a professional setting for comedians) and they're not logical or can't use logic for comedy? Logic is not a T monopoly even if it comes easier to Ts in some areas. Comedy involves a different type of logic -- one that centers on people and the weird things people do. Why would this essentially human view of the world be a T specialty or monopoly? It's not.

    It comes down to one's sense of humor - that's not type or temperament specific. The types may have a different style of presenting humor but it doesn't take away from any type's ability to be successful at comedy...that's a stretch, particularly when attached to a type that is an Ne dom (weird connections, human angles). Really?

    Which is why it may not be the realm for extroverts without Fe in their base functions.
    More conjecture based on tenuous connections.

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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    His punchlines come from things that logically follow, even if they're weird. NF humor is more personal - it's funny because it's so fucked up. Chappelle's funny because of the things he's seen and gone through. Sandler's funny because you're not "supposed" to be that mad, but everyone does get that mad, so we laugh at the breaking of the social taboo.
    As an NF, I accidentally solved a whole heap of logical stuff and got a few degrees. I'm not sure if I would make a logical connection in a joke though. It seems a little difficult.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LavaLucy View Post
    Ellen ENFP
    She extroverts Se, not Ne.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2XtremeENFP View Post
    Adam Sandler = INFP
    No, he extroverts Se.

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