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  1. #61
    Senior Member Adasta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esoteric Wench View Post
    In other words, the INFP should use her Te to decide if the facts match up with the "ideal" the INFP is ruminating upon.
    The cause of most, if not all, Fi-Si loops is that the ideal is not being met. The loop is a way to buy time, or to go over acquired knowledge in order to reanalyse its worth and refeel its potency. The biggest problem with this is the aspect of time. I don't think INFPs are good with the concept of time in general. We aren't sure how long we should engage in the Fi-Si process, to what extent it is "healing", and how to take our next step.

    Quote Originally Posted by Esoteric Wench View Post
    [R]eframe the ideal according to the facts of the situation at hand. This logical analysis of the facts and subsequent culling of the INFP's vision of the situation speaks to the very heart of Te's strengths.
    I think you are suggesting that using Te limits or contains dominant Fi? I would agree since, as @Udog says, you can't use both at the same time. However, the problem is that using Te is quite tiring; it's also hard to surmount rampant Fi - what do I do with all these residual feelings? Unless Ne is there showing you where to go, an INFP iin a Fi-Si loop is in a very uncomfortable situation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Esoteric Wench View Post
    When my INFP BFF uses her Te, she is dazzling. She is able to wield her Fi-Si loops to their maximum power because she takes an almost Machiavellian approach as to which Fi-Si loops she is going to process and which she is going to reframe and reprocess in light of the facts.
    Could you elaborate on this? An example would be helpful, I think. I'm interested in what you're suggesting, but can't quite be certain I understand the premises sufficiently well to comprehend fully.
    That girls are raped, that two boys knife a third,
    Were axioms to him, who'd never heard
    Of any world where promises were kept,
    Or one could weep because another wept.

  2. #62
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esoteric Wench View Post
    In other words, the INFP should use her Te to decide if the facts match up with the "ideal" the INFP is ruminating upon. If yes, then Fi-Si loop away. If they don't match up, then discard it and reframe the ideal according to the facts of the situation at hand. This logical analysis of the facts and subsequent culling of the INFP's vision of the situation speaks to the very heart of Te's strengths.

    When my INFP BFF uses her Te, she is dazzling. She is able to wield her Fi-Si loops to their maximum power because she takes an almost Machiavellian approach as to which Fi-Si loops she is going to process and which she is going to reframe and reprocess in light of the facts. In such situations, my INFP becomes the person I most admire. That I'm in awe of. That whips my sorry ENFP behind into cognitive function shape.

    I hope this makes sense. I'd appreciate feedback from INFPs as to whether or not what I've said here rings true.

    You're actually describing a lot of Ne here. Reframing & reprocessing what things mean, seeing how reality (or "facts") can be manipulated to meet an ideal, etc.
    This is all being aware of the hidden potential in reality, which is Ne.
    Te is a judging function, one which determines how something should be classified factually. This is not very complementary to Fi, but instead competes with is, as Fi seeks to classify things by value. Ne is what helps an INFP see how to meet their ideals in reality by being innovative and finding a new angle to "facts".

    Quote Originally Posted by Adasta View Post
    The cause of most, if not all, Fi-Si loops is that the ideal is not being met. The loop is a way to buy time, or to go over acquired knowledge in order to reanalyse its worth and refeel its potency. The biggest problem with this is the aspect of time. I don't think INFPs are good with the concept of time in general. We aren't sure how long we should engage in the Fi-Si process, to what extent it is "healing", and how to take our next step.
    Totally agree with this. There is a major difference between getting a quick Si reality check (reviewing the "facts" and past patterns) and getting stuck in an unproductive loop where you use a distorted view of the past to prop up unrealistic ideals which give you an excuse to stay static (and thus dismiss Ne ideas). The thinking becomes "My ideals have never been met before, and therefore they never will be met, and so I'll just brood in isolation for the rest of my life" OR "The proven way people are happy/successful is to do X, but I am not good at X or for some reason X doesn't make me happy, so I am doomed to be unhappy". Te doesn't do much except becoming this critical, negative voice which insists there is some indisputable checklist in life one must meet in order to be happy. Te is when the INFP begins to compare themselves to the current standards of what is successful or happy, even if these don't meet their personal needs. Then they strive for things which don't make them happy.

    I'll admit I find it annoying when people suggest the solution for INFPs stuck in negative thinking is to turn to their inferior functions, or really, to become more "realistic". It sort of discounts the positives of their dom & aux thinking. It's sort of saying, "You need to become someone else".

    The greatest strength of the INFP, IMO, is Ne ingenuity and Fi ideals based on an understanding of the self, and a healthy dose of Ne is what opens up the INFP's eyes to real world potential which could lead to fulfilling an ideal. SiTe limits the options to what has already been or dismisses the ideal altogether. These things have not met the ideal, or they supplant it with something that doesn't satisfy the individual, so it just brings the INFP down.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  3. #63
    jump sleuthiness's Avatar
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    You know what else brings infps down?

    thinking of you

  4. #64
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    ^ Is there is a punchline?
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  5. #65
    Senior Member Adasta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    The thinking becomes "My ideals have never been met before, and therefore they never will be met, and so I'll just brood in isolation for the rest of my life" OR "The proven way people are happy/successful is to do X, but I am not good at X or for some reason X doesn't make me happy, so I am doomed to be unhappy".
    Spot on.

    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    Te doesn't do much except becoming this critical, negative voice which insists there is some indisputable checklist in life one must meet in order to be happy. Te is when the INFP begins to compare themselves to the current standards of what is successful or happy, even if these don't meet their personal needs. Then they strive for things which don't make them happy.
    Are you suggesting that Te is always harmful in a Fi-Si loop?

    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    The greatest strength of the INFP, IMO, is Ne ingenuity and Fi ideals based on an understanding of the self, and a healthy dose of Ne is what opens up the INFP's eyes to real world potential which could lead to fulfilling an ideal.
    But how do we access this? The problem is that INFPs feel damaged and therefore feel like Ne isn't an option. Or, worse, that we are being disingeneous by not attempting to understand ourselves so don't even consider Ne a possibility.

    What allows us to use Ne properly?
    That girls are raped, that two boys knife a third,
    Were axioms to him, who'd never heard
    Of any world where promises were kept,
    Or one could weep because another wept.

  6. #66
    Senior Member pinkgraffiti's Avatar
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    I think like this and i'm an ENFP....
    Quote Originally Posted by Silveresque View Post
    Cool thread! I think I experience Fi-Ti-Si loops.

    It starts with Fi trying to figure out and assess my feelings/values, then Ti comes along and points out inconsistencies and tells me when I'm being illogical, but if I have too much focus on Si, then I end up introspecting constantly and never get past that Fi-Ti evaluation exchange. It keeps my dominant function, along with Fi, totally occupied with things that don't really matter instead of allowing them to be used in more productive ways.

    It works like this:

    Fi - "How do I feel?" (My feelings are valid, even if they don't make sense)
    Ti - "Why do I feel this way? How should I feel?" (How I feel is illogical)
    Si - "What did I do that caused me to feel this way?" (I have to examine the cause in order to fix it)

    Fi moves to Ti when I want to understand and intellectualize my feelings. Ti moves to Si when its logic fails to change my feelings, and Si moves back to Fi again when reliving the past brings up painful emotions, thus completing the loop.

  7. #67
    Honor Thy Inferior Such Irony's Avatar
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    Oh oh. I really identify with this Fi-Si loop thing. Moreso than Ti-Si. Another reason to question my type again.

    I just took another function test. The Personality Cafe one has Fi near the bottom, with only Se being lower. The Keys to Cognition one always has Fi on the top. Both had high Ti and Ne. I know tests don't mean much but you gotta wonder.
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  8. #68
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    Wow... I was diagnosed with OCD years ago, and while the diagnosis seemed to fit and treatment helped me, I never did identify with people who had more "traditional" OCD. This post has given me more insight into how my brain works than years of talking with therapists. Wow. Just. Wow.

    I'm just wondering - which came first? Did I just have weak Ne, and that's why Fi-Si developed? Or did I just ignore Ne and let Fi-Si take over? All the tests I have taken say I process Ni very highly as well, so I'm thinking I have one giant Fi-Ni-Si loop that is so destructive. Talking to my INFJ friends about things (I now realize) helped me to employ Te and sometimes Ne to get out of it. Having an INTJ husband give me his heavy dose of Te is also VERY helpful.

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