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  1. #41
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Udog View Post
    Nolla talked a bit on how the INFP Fi-Si loop can be a healthy thing.

    When I find that one of my most basic, fundamental assumptions about something are wrong, it's the Fi-Si loop that comes in and begins laying the new, healthier ground work. (Like the stuff I shared in my blog recently.) The brain creates and strengthens neural pathways through repetition of thought and action. I now believe that it's the very repetition of the Fi-Si loop that allows what otherwise might be a simple thought to become part of who I am.

    The Fi-Si loop is the very mechanism that allows me to be my values, if you will. It is because I am able to contemplate a topic through so thoroughly that something like a personal value can affect all aspects of who I am.

    The Fi-Si loop is quite possible the foundation for one of the INFP's most important strengths. Learning how to wield it is critical, because it's not about stopping the Fi-Si loop, but choosing what loops are worth allowing myself to process.
    I think this is true for all of the various loops as far as cog. function theory goes. They're not inherently bad. They CAN be, but they also CAN be incredibly positive. There are positive and negative elements of all. Same can be said for 'inferior' functions. For example, most of the time the inferior is viewed/portrayed/discussed only in its negative light here on the forums. But for myself as an INFJ, I can't tell you how positive Se is for me in my life, and I see it as a very positive, important, critical, defining element/piece to my personality much moreso than a negative thing.

    Anyway.. cool that you're exploring all of this!
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

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  2. #42
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Udog View Post
    Nolla talked a bit on how the INFP Fi-Si loop can be a healthy thing.

    When I find that one of my most basic, fundamental assumptions about something are wrong, it's the Fi-Si loop that comes in and begins laying the new, healthier ground work. (Like the stuff I shared in my blog recently.) The brain creates and strengthens neural pathways through repetition of thought and action.

    The Fi-Si loop is the very mechanism that allows me to be my values, if you will. It is because I am able to contemplate a topic through so thoroughly and reptitiously that something like a personal value can affect every aspect of who I am.

    The Fi-Si loop is quite possibly the foundation for one of the INFP's most important strengths. Learning how to wield it is critical, because it's not about stopping the Fi-Si loop, but choosing what loops are worth allowing myself to process.

    Is it a "loop" then, though? I definitely see using/developing Si as VERY beneficial to an INFP. It pretty much keeps you from being totally delusional; it grounds you. We can entirely live in a dream world of theories on how everything SHOULD be, but we have to learn from experience so we can function practically and actually find viable ways to create some semblance of our ideals in reality.

    However, I think a loop implies being stuck in that mindset, where instead of learning valuable info from experience and then seeing how to apply that to our future, we get stuck in analyzing the past. That seems to turn negative for us; our flaws, the bad experiences, they get magnified and cripple us from moving forward. I think Si needs to aid Ne, not take over for it. To me, the loop is when Si has overstepped its bounds in our function lineup . It's like, whooaaa Si, Fi is the owner, Ne is the manager, and you're just the one who brings us the coffee, ookay?
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  3. #43
    Uniqueorn William K's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    Is it a "loop" then, though? I definitely see using/developing Si as VERY beneficial to an INFP. It pretty much keeps you from being totally delusional; it grounds you. We can entirely live in a dream world of theories on how everything SHOULD be, but we have to learn from experience so we can function practically and actually find viable ways to create some semblance of our ideals in reality.
    But what Si stores is not necessarily a very accurate picture of the past. It is already filtered through the experiencer.

    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    However, I think a loop implies being stuck in that mindset, where instead of learning valuable info from experience and then seeing how to apply that to our future, we get stuck in analyzing the past. That seems to turn negative for us; our flaws, the bad experiences, they get magnified and cripple us from moving forward. I think Si needs to aid Ne, not take over for it. To me, the loop is when Si has overstepped its bounds in our function lineup . It's like, whooaaa Si, Fi is the owner, Ne is the manager, and you're just the one who brings us the coffee, ookay?
    In my experience, the problem happens when Fi is too dominating and Ne and Si just provides what Fi expects, creating tunnel vision and a self-affirming loop. This can happen with both negative and positive experiences.
    4w5, Fi>Ne>Ti>Si>Ni>Fe>Te>Se, sp > so > sx

    appreciates being appreciated, conflicted over conflicts, afraid of being afraid, bad at being bad, predictably unpredictable, consistently inconsistent, remarkably unremarkable...

    I may not agree with what you are feeling, but I will defend to death your right to have a good cry over it

    The whole problem with the world is that fools & fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. ~ Bertrand Russell

  4. #44
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by William K View Post
    But what Si stores is not necessarily a very accurate picture of the past. It is already filtered through the experiencer.
    That's why we remain idealists and are healthiest in that mind set than trying to be too practical . Nonetheless, our subjective view of past experience can still prove useful & teach us about what does not work for us, as long as we don't dwell on it to the point where the less accurate parts of it overcome our Ne insights.

    In my experience, the problem happens when Fi is too dominating and Ne and Si just provides what Fi expects, creating tunnel vision and a self-affirming loop. This can happen with both negative and positive experiences.
    So you don't see it as a Fi-Si loop so much as an imbalanced Fi? In either case, I think Ne is the missing key to a better mind set. As mentioned in the thread, this can mean bouncing ideas off of others, to help gain perspective of the external. The focus stays on the future & the positive possibilities it holds, instead of a heavily biased view of the past.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  5. #45
    Seriously Delirious Udog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    However, I think a loop implies being stuck in that mindset, where instead of learning valuable info from experience and then seeing how to apply that to our future, we get stuck in analyzing the past. That seems to turn negative for us; our flaws, the bad experiences, they get magnified and cripple us from moving forward. I think Si needs to aid Ne, not take over for it. To me, the loop is when Si has overstepped its bounds in our function lineup . It's like, whooaaa Si, Fi is the owner, Ne is the manager, and you're just the one who brings us the coffee, ookay?
    I do believe it's a loop, because even with my positive revelations I was repeating thoughts and emotions in pretty much the same manner I described in the OP. When we get stuck, it becomes a trap.

    In my more recent healthier loops, there wasn't any emotional pain to fuel constant repetition. Eventually, my thoughts started repeating and not treading any interesting new ground, and I grew bored with it. In my unhealthier loops, there's some sort of negative emotion that ensures I continue to loop beyond the point of productivity.

  6. #46
    Uniqueorn William K's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    So you don't see it as a Fi-Si loop so much as an imbalanced Fi? In either case, I think Ne is the missing key to a better mind set. As mentioned in the thread, this can mean bouncing ideas off of others, to help gain perspective of the external. The focus stays on the future & the positive possibilities it holds, instead of a heavily biased view of the past.
    I'm reminded of the story of the Emperor's New Clothes. Ne is the child that dares to speak out and point out the truth?
    4w5, Fi>Ne>Ti>Si>Ni>Fe>Te>Se, sp > so > sx

    appreciates being appreciated, conflicted over conflicts, afraid of being afraid, bad at being bad, predictably unpredictable, consistently inconsistent, remarkably unremarkable...

    I may not agree with what you are feeling, but I will defend to death your right to have a good cry over it

    The whole problem with the world is that fools & fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. ~ Bertrand Russell

  7. #47
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Udog View Post
    I do believe it's a loop, because even with my positive revelations I was repeating thoughts and emotions in pretty much the same manner I described in the OP. When we get stuck, it becomes a trap.

    In my more recent healthier loops, there wasn't any emotional pain to fuel constant repetition. Eventually, my thoughts started repeating and not treading any interesting new ground, and I grew bored with it. In my unhealthier loops, there's some sort of negative emotion that ensures I continue to loop beyond the point of productivity.
    I just don't think I've experienced a "healthy" loop. I really see Si working in a healthy way in me when it's deferring to Ne. Maybe I just don't have a handle on reviewing the past yet - it turns negative way to easily.

    Of course, this is just a way I am choosing to labeling a mind set I have noted in myself; who is to say what functions I am really using in what way....

    Quote Originally Posted by William K View Post
    I'm reminded of the story of the Emperor's New Clothes. Ne is the child that dares to speak out and point out the truth?
    Intuition in general has always struck me as a BS detector, but I also think we have our own kind of BS that makes Ss roll their eyes
    Last edited by OrangeAppled; 10-08-2010 at 07:01 PM.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  8. #48
    Seriously Delirious Udog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    I just don't think I've experienced a "healthy" loop. I really see Si working in a healthy way in me when it's deferring to Ne. Maybe I just don't have a handle on reviewing the past yet - it turns negative way to easily.

    Of course, this is just a way I am choosing to labeling a mind set I have noted in myself; whose to say what functions I am really using in what way....
    Now that I can see it - the Fi-Si loop being used in a constructive manner - I would have to say it's been there all along. It's just so second nature that I don't really notice it until it's caused by some emotional pain that makes it overstay its welcome.

    Of course, this is me. It helps if I view the pain of the past with a positive intention. Yeah, what happened may have sucked, but now I'm learning something that will make me a better person. When the pain is given purpose, it loses it's grip within me.

  9. #49
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    Interesting. I see Ti-Si as always negative and purely a defense mechanism. When I see I'm in it, I try to immediately look to see what's putting me there.

    It's going to feel good sometimes because it's keeping you safe and away from stress. But then you're not overcoming anything.



  10. #50
    Seriously Delirious Udog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    Interesting. I see Ti-Si as always negative and purely a defense mechanism. When I see I'm in it, I try to immediately look to see what's putting me there.

    It's going to feel good sometimes because it's keeping you safe and away from stress. But then you're not overcoming anything.
    Yeah. I consider the loop to be destructive when it's used to protect ourselves from stress. I know it works differently in you, but I think we share the aspect where we retreat into our heads and repeat our thoughts.

    I'm not sure what a constructive Ti-Si loop would be like. Let me ask you this:

    Have you ever learned some new theory that changes how you model your world? Did you then enter into a loop to understand ALL aspects and repercussions of this theory? In the process, did you re-examine all your past observations, trying to integrate the new information in the process? Did you continue until the new theory makes sense with your past thoughts and experiences?

    And once you finished that, did you break the loop yourself because you were hungry to learn more?

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