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  1. #51
    Dhampyr Economica's Avatar
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    substitute, this quote...

    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick View Post
    I don't compromise my opinions to get along with people. I still get along with 90% of them.
    ... along with my own experience makes me wonder whether, failing Fi and Fe, developing your Te might not alleviate your communication problems. Honesty vs. diplomacy is not a zero-sum game; it is possible to preempt misunderstandings and avoid gratuitous button-pushing without compromising on truth.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Economica View Post

    ... along with my own experience makes me wonder whether, failing Fi and Fe, developing your Te might not alleviate your communication problems. Honesty vs. diplomacy is not a zero-sum game; it is possible to preempt misunderstandings and button-pushing without compromising on truth.
    Yes... I see. But my Te is pretty strong, which is why I reckon I've been testing as ENTJ sorta 40 to 50% of the time lately...

    But I'm sorta a bit annoyed with myself at the moment cos I didn't really want this thread to be all about me and my problems with the basket cases I collect ... lol I was only using those situations to illustrate a concept in the OP, and it was the concept I wanted to talk about.

    Should've figured that NF's would hone in on my emotional/relational problems and I'd end up responding to that... LOL

    Man, no really I love NF's, I've got nothing against any type in particular. I just find that with some ExFJ's - not all, because my parish priest is ENFJ and I get on great with him and there are a couple of ESFJ flower ladies who think I'm the bee's knees lol - there's this mega misunderstanding thing between us that's so frustrating, and it seems like while I'm just puzzled and stuff about it, and trying to solve the situation, anything I do to that end seems to be read by them as me being horrible, and it just seems to get worse.

    It actually quite upsets me sometimes. Y'know, we NT's do have feelings that can be hurt too... we might not factor them as much or as openly into our choices and whatever, but they're sure there, and when you get people repeatedly calling you nasty, mean, evil and all that stuff, it is hurtful, whatever your type.
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

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  3. #53
    Dhampyr Economica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    Yes... I see. But my Te is pretty strong, which is why I reckon I've been testing as ENTJ sorta 40 to 50% of the time lately...
    Well, assuming you were able to foresee this thread's turn of events, you certainly weren't being very strategic.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Economica View Post
    Well, assuming you were able to foresee this thread's turn of events, you certainly weren't being very strategic.
    Heh, no, you're right... like I said, just under half the time... lol If I do 'mutate', then it'll obviously take a while to settle into my new type

    No, Ne is still the leader... but Te and Ti have been really vying hard for second place and I think to this day they're joint place holders. But maybe that's why my strategising is off a bit - cos it's led by Ne and not Ni... uh-oh, we're back to the odd combinations of functions again now... where was that other thread?? lol
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

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  5. #55
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    Economica's about to bust 1000 posts. I wonder what she'll change her title to? Oh uhm...let me get back on topic real quick.

    Substitute, if I hear you right the jist of what you are saying is that you want to be 100% honest with people, but you don't want them to get pissed off at you. Doesn't that seem a bit unrealistic?
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  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    Economica's about to bust 1000 posts. I wonder what she'll change her title to? Oh uhm...let me get back on topic real quick.

    Substitute, if I hear you right the jist of what you are saying is that you want to be 100% honest with people, but you don't want them to get pissed off at you. Doesn't that seem a bit unrealistic?
    LMAO when you put it like that...

    No though, it's not quite what I'm saying. I'm more like saying that if someone gets pissed off at me for being honest with them, they could at least not mount a smear campaign... lol

    But no, I wasn't even really saying that in the OP. I was more like just wondering whether the Feelers here would give me their thoughts on what sorts of deeds and what sorts of motives qualify for them as good or evil, what invalidates what and vice versa. Like I say, it was supposed to be a concept thing - and it was going quite well until the ENFJ arrived and then we got stuck on the relationship/friendship issues

    Just kidding prote - you actually said some very helpful things and I'm thinking about them now
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

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  7. #57
    Dhampyr Economica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    Ne is still the leader... but Te and Ti have been really vying hard for second place and I think to this day they're joint place holders. But maybe that's why my strategising is off a bit - cos it's led by Ne and not Ni...
    That could be, and/or maybe you default to your primary judging function when you come under pressure? Which of course ironically is when you most need to keep an eye on the consequences of your actions. <empathetic >

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    Economica's about to bust 1000 posts. I wonder what she'll change her title to? Oh uhm...let me get back on topic real quick.
    Thank you for reminding me of the depths of my nerdiness. (Not because I've reached 1000 posts, mind you, but because I've known for several hundred posts what I'll change my title to. )

  8. #58
    Senior Member Lookin4theBestNU's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute
    Argh! I tried to walk away and end it, but they've been running around telling a load of bullshit to everyone else and trying to damage my other friendships!

    And the reason I said it like I did was to try and cushion it to them so they wouldn't be hurt! I was at a loss as to how to handle it, so, acknowledging my limitations, I looked for advice from others, and the overwhelming majority advised being gentle and letting them down slowly. The intention was to just let the first round sorta blow over, and then just gradually drift away. I figured that way they'd save some face and wouldn't have to feel like it was personal, and they wouldn't be so upset. But it all just went wrong. Dammit, can't a guy do anything right?!
    PLEASE be honest with them. You don't have to be an asshole, just state it calmly. If she has an emotional reaction which is likely state it as a win/win then walk away. I'm not positive about other ENFJs, but from the sound of the conversation you had with her, we actually for the most prefer blunt honesty. I think she just wants you to say it...for a J that brings CLOSURE. Your plan and any opinions backing up the "drifting away" plan may work for the INTP but not the ENFJ. I was wrong about the free babysitting, that was my assumption due to wording.... my Ni has been off before... my bad seriously.
    Quote Originally Posted by substitute
    I want them to understand that I don't hate them, because them thinking I do is clearly hurting them, though it doesn't hurt me. And it's also causing them to do damage to other friendships of mine which are more important to me.
    You stated in this thread however you are on most peoples "A-list" this ENFJ isn't going to ruin that I would think. Gossiping/campaigning doesn't win respect from most people which is why I choose not to do it. However the thing with people who like to gossip is the person/subject matter changes often. You will become a non-issue after a time.I noticed that you edited some things in and changed your previous post to me but I'm not going to go line by line anyway because I'm lazy. If you don't believe empathy makes you good or bad, tired of being judged etc. why are you trying to cushion their feelings? Are you doing it for your own self-protection or what? I guess what I'm trying to say is all of the pieces don't fit here. I would assume this is why you can't get along with ENFJs. If you are being empathetic or wanting to be to the ENFJ all it requires is honesty. Most of the time what is taken as 'game playing' is a search for truth.
    "At points of clarity, I realize that my life on earth is meaningless, and that I am merely a pawn in a bigger game. A game I cannot possibly understand or have control of. Thankfully, before depression sets in, I drift back into my cloudy, bewildered daily routine." **Joel Patrick Warneke**

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Economica View Post
    That could be, and/or maybe you default to your primary judging function when you come under pressure? Which of course ironically is when you most need to keep an eye on the consequences of your actions. <empathetic >
    Well possibly, but I do think it's more likely the Ne, it's so very dominant - can't you tell? hahaha... Just as the Te starts getting somewhere with a strategy, Ne comes along and gets easily distracted by oooh shiny thing! And decides to go wandering off to see what comes of it, while Te's throwing its hands up along with Ti and they're saying "why do we bother?"

    (Not because I've reached 1000 posts, mind you, but because I've known for several hundred posts what I'll change my title to. )
    Wow, that's some serious long-term planning!
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

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    I will kill you if I must
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  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lookin4theBestNU View Post
    If you don't believe empathy makes you good or bad, tired of being judged etc. why are you trying to cushion their feelings? Are you doing it for your own self-protection or what?
    Because there are other reasons for not wanting people to be hurt, than empathy alone. That's kinda what the point of the thread was supposed to be about... lol
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

    "When it all comes down to dust
    I will kill you if I must
    I will help you if I can" - Leonard Cohen

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