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  1. #31
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    You all kill me with this INFJ worship on the forum. :rolli:
    What do you expect? My wife is INFJ. (Not to mention that she also reads these forums.)
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  2. #32
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfmaiden14 View Post
    Maybe more of a tendency would be the best word? And perhaps more of an ExxJ than more specific? I just throw ideas out as they come to me. >.> I don't pretend to be an expert at this. (yet ) I think it's a problem for everyone, really, but Is would be quicker to notice and correct themselves, and Ps would be more apt to not worry about what others are doing.
    I don't know if introverts are more likely to self-correct or not. It depends on how willing to accept feedback the person (not type) is. Both introverts and extroverts can be closed to feedback. I'm not one of those that believe that introverts are more introspective (as in examining their own behavior/motivations and self-correcting) than extroverts.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
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  3. #33
    *ears perk up* wolfmaiden14's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    Yet again...

    And wolfmaiden - I'm glad to see that it happens even in inter-Feeler relationships as well!

    Well, I mean I'm not glad to see you have problems with your friend, in fact I'm sorry and it must be quite frustrating. But I mean I'm glad in the sense that people mean it when they feel consoled about not being the only one... lol But you knew that, I was just re-iterating to be clear
    Haha. I know what you mean.

    Of course, I think this occurance may have a lot to do with the fact that a couple experiences I've gone through have made me develop my T. Which is a double-edged sword in that I can step back and be analytical.. but I know exactly what the other person is Feeling and admire them for putting their heart and soul into something, yet still see the necessity in disagreeing. Haha... sometimes empathy can make you an awful person in the sense that one avoids that kind of confrontation to avoid that pain. X.x

    Maverick..... I totally agree and try to be honest all the time. When I catch myself sugarcoating in order to not set-off a volatile person for the good of something else.. I feel like such a hypocrite! I always say that how to tell a real friend is whether they hold being honest against you or not.

    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    I don't know if introverts are more likely to self-correct or not. It depends on how willing to accept feedback the person (not type) is. Both introverts and extroverts can be closed to feedback. I'm not one of those that believe that introverts are more introspective (as in examining their own behavior/motivations and self-correcting) than extroverts.
    really? I wasn't referring to feedback, I just thought part of being an I was being more reflective about one's self. I guess that doesn't have to mean about their actions though, and it certainly doesn't mean they'd act on what they notice. XD
    Forming characters! Whose? Our own or others? Both. And in that momentous fact lies the peril and responsibility of our existence. - Elihu Burritt

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  4. #34
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Once again, I think I hop between both philosophies.

    I don't always think it's appropriate to state my honest feelings/opinion about 'trivial' things, that aren't important in the big picture. And, if I don't think anything good will come, in the longterm, out of my saying something, then I won't say it. If I see no positive, self-growth 'point' in saying something, then I won't.

    In everyday interactions, with more casual acquaintances, I think it's appropriate to be more 'civil' and not necessarily spew out all of your honest feelings about everything/everyone, to everyone. I don't really
    see the overall constructiveness of doing that. For example, telling an artist their painting is bad -- I highly doubt the artist would really take that comment to heart and change professions - they'd probably simply hate the deliverer of the comment and continue with their bad paintings. :-) So what's the 'point' of delivering the more negative comment? Now as for me personally, if I was asked a subjective comment on a painting, I might say: 'Well, it's not my personal taste, but I'm sure a lot of people out there like it.' But I certainly wouldn't lie and gush with fakeness and say how much I loved the painting...because it wouldn't be true.

    And yes, I do vary my approach depending on who I'm with. Some people I've encountered aren't open to any sort of honest feedback - they have their blinders on - so, there's not much 'point' in my saying something. Other times, people may be more open. I also modify my approach based on person, because I know people operate in different ways, and being a sensitive person myself, I'm sensitive to others who might be this way, and who might integrate a flippant comment a LOT more, than, say, your strong T people. That's more the empathy thing I suppose...as a child I was teased and I really integrated that and hence as an adult I'm very careful not to be 'mean' to anyone, because I know what it feels like on the receiving end.

    But I definitely believe in honesty for the big stuff, like keeping relationships healthy. I don't think a healthy relationship is one where one person is constantly biting his/her tongue, or repressing part of himself, simply for the sake of getting along -- that wouldn't be a friendship, in my mind.

    As usual, I think there's a balance between the thinking and feeling.

    Eh..substitute, I agree with your idea that some people just inherantly may not get along, and don't mesh well. I experienced this quite recently with someone. She and I had been friends for about 2 yrs, but by the end of the 2 yrs it had become apparent to me that we were close friends simply because I was holding much of myself back. I'm not going to go into it here, but yep, we definitely were too different from each other for it to really work. My friend didn't want to hear ANY of my feedback, and thought the fact that I might disagree with her meant I wasn't a 'true friend' and wasn't supportive...so, the friendship ended. Because it wasn't working for me either.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    Since you say this couple is childless and badly want children, they seem to have formed an attachment to your kids. The ENFJ may feel like their surrogate mother and honestly love them like her own. It would be hurtful for the couple to have the kids taken away from them. But it also seems like you benefited from the couple as babysitters. You also gained something from this relationship. The couple may recognize this and feel a little used as well. It's not like you let them spend time with your kids because you wanted to purely wanted to ease their child-aches. I think this adds another dimension to the situation because the couple may feel like they had the carrot of kids dangled in front of their noses, only to be snatched away and they're retaliating by badmouthing you.
    He did the right thing by telling them how he felt about them. He has the right to not want to see them. After all, judging from past threads, they have not shown considerate behavior towards him. He has been considerate, patient and honest with them. They need to learn that it is normal that they cannot get away with disrespectful behavior towards others. If they are feeling bad, it's their problem - They're paying for the consequences of their lack of respect towards him. Maybe it will teach them to respect other people in the future.


    I'd ask myself if there are certain types of people that I'm incapable of getting along with then I need to do some changing within myself.
    Adapting your communcation for others is a form of manipulation. You're changing yourself to suit others. It's trying to control social dynamics and the reactions of others. However, not everyone is meant to get along. Can't we just acknowledge when we don't like ourselves? Changing our style is already changing how we present ourselves. It is ceasing to be authentic. It is a barrier to true connection with others because it becomes difficult to distinguish between a sincere consideration and a fake one from others.

    Let's just learn to respect and *accept* other people's opinions and that we don't have the right to guilt-trip and backstab them (like they did) when we don't like what they say. We don't need to get along with everyone. We need to be able to be civil with everyone, but we don't need to be friends with all people. We have no right to attack or try to harm someone in anyway (psychologically or physically) just because we feel hurt by something they said or did.

  6. #36
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfmaiden14 View Post
    really? I wasn't referring to feedback, I just thought part of being an I was being more reflective about one's self. I guess that doesn't have to mean about their actions though, and it certainly doesn't mean they'd act on what they notice. XD
    There are many definitions of extroversion/introversion. The MBTI definition basically asks in which was does your energy flow. Jung says it's a matter of orientation towards an object, with introverts moving away from the object and extroverts moving towards the object.

    It depends on which definition of introspection you're using. If by introspective you mean aware of your thoughts and feeling's then yes, introverts are more introspective.

    But if you mean introspective in the sense of examining one's thoughts and feelings, then no I don't think introverts are more introspective in that sense.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  7. #37
    *ears perk up* wolfmaiden14's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    There are many definitions of extroversion/introversion. The MBTI definition basically asks in which was does your energy flow. Jung says it's a matter of orientation towards an object, with introverts moving away from the object and extroverts moving towards the object.

    It depends on which definition of introspection you're using. If by introspective you mean aware of your thoughts and feeling's then yes, introverts are more introspective.

    But if you mean introspective in the sense of examining one's thoughts and feelings, then no I don't think introverts are more introspective in that sense.
    Ah! Fair enough. would it be more accurate to say INs would be more apt to introspection? (by the second definition.)
    Forming characters! Whose? Our own or others? Both. And in that momentous fact lies the peril and responsibility of our existence. - Elihu Burritt

    Member of the Maverick's Biker Club - Now crashing through walls instead of just..walking into them.

  8. #38
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick View Post
    ....
    You know what? Fuck it, let's just get married. Here, now. Bring your current spouse along, if you have one, I'm sure they'll understand it's for the benefit of mankind

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfmaiden14 View Post
    Ah! Fair enough. would it be more accurate to say INs would be more apt to introspection? (by the second definition.)
    Hey, you two, quit derailing my thread! You been hanging round with NP's too much or something?
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  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    You know what? Fuck it, let's just get married. Here, now. Bring your current spouse along, if you have one, I'm sure they'll understand it's for the benefit of mankind
    lol

  10. #40
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick View Post
    He did the right thing by telling them how he felt about them. He has the right to not want to see them. After all, judging from past threads, they have not shown considerate behavior towards him. He has been considerate, patient and honest with them. They need to learn that it is normal that they cannot get away with disrespectful behavior towards others. If they are feeling bad, it's their problem - They're paying for the consequences of their lack of respect towards him. Maybe it will teach them to respect other people in the future.
    Yes and I said that ultimately, they're his children and he has the right to limit the amount of time he spends with the couple. The couple don't have dibs on his kids. But you forget he also allowed the couple to babysit the children when he needed some space. He's not completely inculpable. Maybe the terms of visitation with the children should have been clearly spelled out at the beginning of the situation so this kind of thing would have been minimized. I don't know what caused the rift in the relationship between Substitute. This could be just the tip of the iceberg. I can't say conclusively who's disrespecting who. All I know is that Sub has a right to restrict visitation to his kids and the couple can scream and pout as much as they want, but it's his decision. But they're also responding to a perceived slight on Sub's behalf, be it valid or invalid.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick View Post
    Adapting your communcation for others is a form of manipulation. You're changing yourself to suit others. It's trying to control social dynamics and the reactions of others. However, not everyone is meant to get along. Can't we just acknowledge when we don't like ourselves? Changing our style is already changing how we present ourselves. It is ceasing to be authentic. It is a barrier to true connection with others because it becomes difficult to distinguish between a sincere consideration and a fake one from others.
    O rly? Do you seriously not change your communications style depending on who you're around? Do you talk to a two-year old the same way as a 12 YO and a 32 YO? Do you yell when people are sleeping in a room? Do you get up and start pontificating about your favorite sports team when you're supposed to be giving a eulogy at a funeral? I'm thinking you answered yes to at least some of these. Is changing depending on your environment always a matter of manipulation? Clearly, it's not. Changing with the intent to maliciously deceive is manipulation with the intent to control, not merely adapting to different circumstances.

    If anyone thinks they're supposed to get along with everyone, then they're living in a dream world. There are certain people that you simply won't be able to tolerate. But I do believe you should make the effort to get along with people. If the people you notice you're not able to get along with tend to have the same personality traits, then you've got some prototypical example of a person like this that you didn't get along with in the past and are projecting it out to everyone who sort of resembles this person personality wise. Yes, the problem is you and not them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick View Post
    Let's just learn to respect and *accept* other people's opinions and that we don't have the right to guilt-trip and backstab them (like they did) when we don't like what they say. We don't need to get along with everyone. We need to be able to be civil with everyone, but we don't need to be friends with all people. These people are not at his job, he has no professional obligation to do so.
    Agreed.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

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