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  1. #31
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    I don't know about the SJs you know, but ESTJs tend to be some of the most independent, learn it yourself, techie kinds of guys I've ever met. Two were IT teachers and the other voluntarily incorporated and taught huge amounts of tech into his English Language Arts consultant job.

    Most people already use the internet and email, as well as powerpoint, word and Excel. You can't even get hired without those skills anymore.

  2. #32
    Member 4375's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hermeticdancer View Post
    Aren't you just driven internally by a sense of wanting to get things done? Or Organized? Tasks completed?
    Do you feel worthless if you are not organized?
    Isn't it pretty much about the achieving a goal then moving on?
    Do you like to write lists?
    I am interested what is your motivation though? Just to do it? Why wake up in the morning with so much drive?

    ...Other than 99.9% brain chemistry?
    Wanting to get things done is what drives me, yes. Am I organized? Absolutely.

    Do I feel Worthlessness if I am not organized? I never feel worthless but I will feel really frustrated then I will change my problem and get organized before I go on.

    Once a goal is achieved there is no use on staying on the task. But don't forget, follow-up may be part of the goal. The goal is achieved when I tell myself it is achieved.

    My motivation is to make a difference in my job, other's lives and in my own life. Goals are who I am. I have set big goal for myself in life and have achieved most of them. Achievement in my goals breed confidence.
    I am male. Don't hold it against me.

  3. #33
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    So 4375, if someone wanted to present you with a new idea:

    1) Who would you be most receptive to hearing it from? (Does their "rank" matter? Amount of time in the organization? Position in relation to you? The kind of work they normally do?)

    2) What would most strongly convince you that it was a plan worth trying? (Particularly if it is something that hasn't been done in many places before?)

    3) How would you prefer that the person approach you? Do you agree with what PeaceBaby had to say about this?

  4. #34
    Member 4375's Avatar
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    1) funny you should ask. I get presented with ideas at work from people with lower seniority all the time. I will give credit where credit is due. A new idea is a new idea. If it is good who cares who it is from. I have let their superiours know they really did something to impress me.

    2) If it sounds good and realistic or I am conviced by the presenter that it is good or realistic. Then I will try it.

    3) Just say, "Hey I have this idea. What do you think?" I will have to read what Peacebaby said and then I will comment.
    I am male. Don't hold it against me.

  5. #35
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    What makes you deem it good and realistic?

  6. #36
    Member 4375's Avatar
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    Well that would be hard to comment on with out a specific idea.
    I am male. Don't hold it against me.

  7. #37
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    Okay, put it this way, are there factors that would make you dismiss an idea either due to the person presenting it, or the way in which it were presented? Does it matter to have a lot of data behind it initially, or for it to be endorsed by someone else you respect?

  8. #38
    Member 4375's Avatar
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    I guess I would have to know if it could be done with what we have or could obtain. If it requires many different scenarios to come together but is beyond our control. Then it is not realistic.
    I am male. Don't hold it against me.

  9. #39
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    I will give you an example of an idea that I think could be broached in many schools.

    Children who do not have confidence and a strong sense of identity are more prone to either becoming followers in an attempt to fit in, or bullies in an attempt to feel powerful. Rather than dealing with these problems reactively, it seems to me that it would make more sense to actively try and find as many areas of strengths for each child in the school as possible. This can partially be addressed through extra-curricular clubs, as well as the classroom and specialty teachers noticing what the child is good at and communicating with each other. Parents are also a valuable resource. (What interests does their child have outside of school that we could major on? What about kids whose parents cannot think of anything they are good at? How do we find those areas?) Those that do playground supervision also may have valuable ideas to contribute from what they have observed. (Does the child have people they hang around with? What kinds of things do they like to do at recess? Are they a leader or a follower? Are they drawn to certain activities?)

    However, there needs to be someone who is ultimately responsible for taking on certain kids, and putting all the information together. Someone who could notice what the child enjoys (eg are they always drawing during class) or naturally do well (do they seem to be a child who likes order? Perhaps they could work in the office during recess. Are they good with hands on skills? maybe they could have the opportunity to work with a maintenance person when they get done work early. Do they naturally look out for other classmates? Perhaps we can develop mentorship skills between younger and older children.) I would argue that putting someone in a position of gathering and disseminating information about the child between home, various teachers, extra-curricular leaders, and administration would reduce negative office incidents, increase the child's academic success, and ameliorate home/school relationships.

    If children do not have help in identifying these areas, often their sense of identity is built around negative behaviour or trying to be the same as a group of people. This can result in many people's time being used in resolving these conflicts, a general environment of negative peer pressure, or families choosing to move their children to another school. Rather than waiting until we see signs of danger, or the child frequently getting into trouble, we should be looking around Grade 3 or 4 for what we can help them to become involved in.

    Many children are facing difficult circumstances in their lives, which have resulted in frequent trips to counsellors, difficulties in paying attention in class, restlessness or aggression, and feeling alienated and alone. A counsellor coming to visit once a week really does not have enough involvement to change the child's daily life to a larger extent than allowing them to vent some of their frustration and give them some one on one time.

    By involving children in activities that boost their confidence, increase their skills and concentration, and experience success, I believe that much more is accomplished at a much lower cost to the school. The distraction of developing other skills has great power to help the child take their mind of their problems. The skills developed to achieve success in one area also usually bleed over into academic areas through having more confidence to risk trying something new, and transferring the strategies for attacking a problem in a pursuit they enjoy to a pursuit they have experienced problems with. This also makes for a more teachable child who is willing to ask questions, thereby affecting the whole classroom environment.

    Therefore, my recommendations would be:
    1) Funnel funding into the development of extra-curricular activities that address a wide variety of interests, rather than focussing on more counsellors, psychologists, and specialists.

    2) Utilize staff members' unique abilities to get the most students involved possible. This involves the administration getting to know their staff well enough to know what they have to offer. A good side benefit is that staff members who are doing what they feel passionate about will be reenergized, rather than drained by extra involvement and will have a lot more insight into students within the student body. Students also listen more receptively to adults that they have a relationship with.

    3) Hire a staff member to look out for students who especially need stronger relationships to adults within the school and who are low on confidence. Have them act as a "matchmaker" between the child and other staff members, or the child and his/her parents, as well as between the parents and staff members and the parents and the school. They will also need to be someone who can give input to the administrators about the dynamics within the school they are seeing, as well as collect data for how students are doing academically and behaviourally at school.

    How would I present this to a sensor in such a way that they would be receptive to considering the possibilities? I would think succinct is better (maybe point form), briefly discussed verbally and followed up in writing, with specific examples of children referenced so there is a concrete way to visualize the results.

  10. #40
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    ^ Yeah, succinct is good. Or at least, a bit more succinct than what you just typed. But on the other hand, evidence helps. If you have some statistics to back it up, your argument will be stronger.

    Also, I can tell you now that, even though you've got the "human element" down, and the ideas are great, the SJs will want to know the details of the plan. How will you come up with the money, etc?

    It helps to treat it like you're on a high school or college debate team. The way that those kids have to structure their arguments is VERY SJ-friendly.
    ~ g e t f e s t i v e ! ~


    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"



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