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  1. #31
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    yes I realize this, I'm not an idiot, and I do not appreciate you infering such a thing.But what I'm saying is, that you or me can't change anyone's mind unless they are willing to have it changed. So why get upset over it? I just don't get it.
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  2. #32
    A Benign Tumor PoprocksAndCoke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the state i am in View Post
    my first guess is that it is bc you are a 4w3 and i am a 5w4? my entp 4w3 friend is more live and let live, but i think he still hates stupid people. but he's nicer and more charming and more skillful and more funny about it.

    as a 5, i do care first and foremost about the sanctity of knowledge, good clean thinking, etc.

    perhaps the chart-the-courseness varies with enneagram and other factors. the perceived Jness. 3 might have a more get-things-going under current than 5 which integrates to 8.
    Probably.

    I get frustrated and annoyed with stupid people, but my mother was so hypercritical of every aspect of my life (she yelled at me for not being social enough, for being random, for asking "why", etc.) that I can't usually criticize other people without feeling like I'm acting like her.
    "In order for the light to shine so brightly, the darkness must be present." -Francis Bacon

    "No matter how dark the moment, love and hope are always possible." -George Chakiris

  3. #33
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    yes I realize this, I'm not an idiot, and I do not appreciate you infering such a thing.But what I'm saying is, that you or me can't change anyone's mind unless they are willing to have it changed. So why get upset over it? I just don't get it.
    (calmer than you are)

    you relate everything to your personal values, and when others breach them, you get upset. we do this with our ideas.

    with that said, you seem to be more reactive currently than i am. i know how this breach effects my mental objectives. i enjoy discourse and the process of clarifying ideas, yet i hate when the discourse must take a step back to encompass that which has been already solved. it makes me impatient and frustrated.

    do you understand why this breach- here- (of your values) seems to negatively affect your value system? why you can't step over it and encompass/absorb it, accept it, and move on? what is negative about wanting mental accuracy, what threat does that pose to you? that you must sort our your feelings internally, and outside ideas, mental influence, feedback from others gets in the way of you figuring out who you are? or too easily dominates you and prevents you from expressing yourself as you want to express yourself?

    you find the whole idea of this thread irrational, but that is bc you have different motivations and different thought processes than some of us do. yet you become enflamed for reasons that are very similar to ours (purposes that do not mesh with yours).

    i still struggle to see the infp sense of openness, what they are trying to accomplish/protect when they do flare up with judgment. in what way it protects the integrity of their values, and what those values come to understand, put forth, without an objective, a creative act, etc.

  4. #34
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    I once read in a book "The day you start patronizing people, you are the one who has come too far"

    Or like my professor phrases it: "If you cant explain a concept to a stranger of the theory, your concept is most probably wrong"
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  5. #35
    Shaman BlackCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the state i am in View Post
    well for one, all e4s and e5s want to understand themselves. threads about e4 and e5 types being the predominant discussion are NOT surprising.
    Ah... That makes sense. And as a 9, I have a distorted sense of self, so I don't have any desire to understand myself; or at least not as much as a 4 or a 5. As a 9 I would have a heightened need to understand others since that's one of our main priorities: other people.

    Quote Originally Posted by the state i am in View Post
    also, we like specificity. i don't want to talk about all types at once. the quality of discussion is rarely good and the focus is not there. it is unhelpful. we are J types (Pi) and we want to get into the nuts and bolts. we want structured discussion moving towards a specific ends. and we have more to talk about with other infjs (and other N types, generally). we usually have far more in common and far more ideas to communicate with other iNtuitives, especially in a form that is strictly writing such as this one. this is rarely isfp terrain, that you know your typology so well makes you an exception in that case (and a large part of why you thought you were infp for so long).
    Bolded- I notice that with Js a lot actually. Thanks for pointing that out, I didn't think of it that way.

    And for the rest of it, I do notice that divide. Half the stuff that Ns seem to talk about on here disinterests me. I'm more interested in gathering more facts that apply to the types, rather than theory. I mostly talk on here to observe people's reactions to certain things, and see if it lines up with the type (the w8 helps here a lot). That's probably why I don't have a lot of patience with a lot of the stuff on here, that I perceive as "crap" or "useless," and when I see that I lose patience. And yet, I still want to discuss it. Makes me wish there were more sensors here.

    And that is a big factor as to why I thought I was N. You understand me far too well, one of the few people on here that does.

    Quote Originally Posted by the state i am in View Post
    people like spending time with others who recognize them, understand them, and bring out their best form of expression they can muster.
    That's true as well. I suppose it helps for you INFJs to be around other INFJs in discussing something specific, since it makes a chain reaction in understanding the topic at hand. Throw in a couple of ENTPs and ISTPs, and there you go. I guess it could work differently for sensors, since I am usually just discussing facts or gathering facts, and I don't usually formulate theories. When I do put something down theoretical, it's usually just an observation.

    I think I get it now...
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

    sCueI (primary Inquisition)

  6. #36
    Striving for balance Little Linguist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat View Post
    It's in the nature of Ni to see things from multiple viewpoints, this could be in anything. A dispute, a way to tackle an issue at a job, etc. On here I've seen some INFJs (not really INTJs surprisingly) that are probably ISFJs, because of this lack of viewing things from other viewpoints when in disputes. That's where it shows through the most for me. Or you will have these people who are obviously an ISFJ (with their tag INFJ) or an ESFJ (tagged ENFJ) just because they are interested in this theory, they are "imaginative," and are capable of making intuitive leaps, and they think that that's what it means to be N.

    I haven't really got anything for you for things that *aren't* INFJ characteristics, that's a bit broad for me to answer.
    I can see this, but the question is: HOW DO YOU KNOW??? I mean really? How do you know you are ENFP or ESFP or INFJ or ISFJ or ESFJ or ENFJ and stuff? It's so hard to objectively type yourself, and other people don't see the whole you either, so how do you really know? Will we ever really know?

    Or is it kind of like that Tootsie Roll Pop commercial where the guy goes up to the owl and says, "Excuse me, Mr. Owl, but how many licks does it take to get to the tootsie roll part of a tootsie roll pop?" And he says, "Well let's try it out, shall we?" Licks. "One," licks, "Two," licks, "Three," bites, "Three." Then voice-over...."How many licks DOES it take? The world may never know."

    And that's what type is like. For me anyway. Lick, lick, lick, bite...okay, there we go. Take your best shot.

    EDIT: By the way, for those who have no idea what the hell I mean, here you go.

    [YOUTUBE="Jhjb4P_jnKk"].[/YOUTUBE]
    Last edited by Little Linguist; 11-23-2009 at 05:00 PM. Reason: Adding link
    If you are interested in language, words, linguistics, or foreign languages, check out my blog and read, post, and/or share.

  7. #37
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat View Post
    Ah... That makes sense. And as a 9, I have a distorted sense of self, so I don't have any desire to understand myself; or at least not as much as a 4 or a 5. As a 9 I would have a heightened need to understand others since that's one of our main priorities: other people.
    i think the idea is that you focus more on how you relate to others. this is why 9 so often looks like Fe and is so nice, loving, easy-going, etc. 9w8 and 9w1 have slight differences in this, 9w8 wants to use this information practically (very Te), 9w1 wants to use it to envision a new lifestyle (and why i think infp 9w1 is way more common vs isfp 9w8).

    i have no idea where i draw the line, i just say things until they get corrected. we are all, ultimately, empiricists in some form or fashion, and the facts are tricky business.

    And for the rest of it, I do notice that divide. Half the stuff that Ns seem to talk about on here disinterests me. I'm more interested in gathering more facts that apply to the types, rather than theory. I mostly talk on here to observe people's reactions to certain things, and see if it lines up with the type (the w8 helps here a lot). That's probably why I don't have a lot of patience with a lot of the stuff on here, that I perceive as "crap" or "useless," and when I see that I lose patience. And yet, I still want to discuss it. Makes me wish there were more sensors here.
    certain scales of information are more relevant to Ns or more relevant to S types. this is why N types can, at times, gloss over key details, read into directions that are not there, pick the wrong question to answer, and divorce themselves far too much from the concrete text. they just make shit up, some times, when they project patterns that aren't there (or might be a little too obscure for social relevancy). which is situational...

    in short, they seem to skip steps because they are distancing themselves, they are changing their gear differential, they are zooming out or zooming in, etc. this is what imaginative perception does, it re-frames by creating different scales/lenses.

    That's true as well. I suppose it helps for you INFJs to be around other INFJs in discussing something specific, since it makes a chain reaction in understanding the topic at hand. Throw in a couple of ENTPs and ISTPs, and there you go. I guess it could work differently for sensors, since I am usually just discussing facts or gathering facts, and I don't usually formulate theories. When I do put something down theoretical, it's usually just an observation.
    the theorizing is just a product of wanting to find the perfect map for a problem. we want to abstract until we focus the lens to see the most resolute image we can see. what gets at the most RELEVANT details to our current project or mission, what allows us to see our own big picture, our own future projection, our own sense of what is to happen. it is based on how things move, unfold, change, adapt, etc. it is a way of seeing different levels of organization across the vast interlocking system(s) of the universe, or whatever we care to understand. it is rooted in the connections between objects rather than the objects themselves, and we use all our cultural systems of understanding to get at the way these take shape, move, create purpose, interact, etc even when they are difficult to grasp/see/recognize/follow/predict.

  8. #38
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  9. #39
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrRandom View Post
    I once saw a terribly written post by an INFJ. My first thought was that the person has got to be mistyped. I think this is the only time I've questioned someone being an INFJ.

    Actually, here's a rule of thumb: If there's even a single typo in an INFJ's post, s/he's not an INFJ at all!
    No pressure guys!
    I know this is a joke, but I know one INFJ who makes spelling errors a lot. We went to college together, and I just recently realized she is INFJ. Her grammar was never her strong suit.

    Other types can be grammar Nazis also. My ISFJ mother types very formal and proper emails with perfect spelling. I'm not that uptight and I'm prone to typos, but I really dislike very lazy grammar and basic homophone errors (ie. "your" when it should be "you're"). So I don't even think it comes down to P vs. J for that issue.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  10. #40
    Senior Member paintmuffin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Avis View Post
    Same applies for the INFP. I must admit that I don't know a single person I would call an INFJ, but then again, I probably wouldn't recognize it if I saw one IRL
    Wouldn't INFPs see a bunch of different paths (Ne)? True to themselves, yes, but never with a clear vision of where they're ending up! In fact I'd say my INFP friends are sometimes most likely to say "I don't know!!!!!" when asked what they'll be doing at any given stage of their lives.
    A colleague of the great scientist James Watson remarked that Watson was always “lounging around, arguing about problems instead of doing experiments.” He concluded that “There is more than one way of doing good science.”
    It was Watson’s form of idleness, the scientist went on to say, that allowed him to solve “the greatest of all biological problems: the discovery of the structure of DNA.” It's a point worth remembering in a society overly concerned with efficiency.

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