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Thread: Joan of Arc

  1. #1
    Aspiring Troens Ridder KLessard's Avatar
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    Question Joan of Arc

    I am a great admirer of Joan of Arc. She is seen as the INFP archetype, but the enneagram refers to her as a Type One Reformer, which would be more INFJ. She does have a lot of the Refomer in her, I think, and some analysts see her as one of the first protestants.

    What do you think? INFP or INFJ? Why?

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    Head Pigeon Mad Hatter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KLessard View Post
    She is seen as the INFP archetype, but the enneagram refers to her as a Type One Reformer, which would be more INFJ.
    Not necessarily. A lot of INFPs happen to be Enneagram Type 4s (including yours truly) of which '1' is supposed to be the integration point - which would actually support typing ole Joan as INFP.
    IN SERIO FATVITAS.

    -τὸ γὰρ γράμμα ἀποκτέννει, τὸ δὲ πνεῦμα ζῳοποιεῖ-

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    Aspiring Troens Ridder KLessard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Avis View Post
    Not necessarily. A lot of INFPs happen to be Enneagram Type 4s (including yours truly) of which '1' is supposed to be the integration point - which would actually support typing ole Joan as INFP.
    That's true. Good point.

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    No Cigar Litvyak's Avatar
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    O__o

    Wow. I always saw her as an ESFJ.

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    Aspiring Troens Ridder KLessard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Litvyak View Post
    O__o

    Wow. I always saw her as an ESFJ.



    No, Joan of Arc is traditionally seen as THE INFP archetype. Definitely NF. Always worried about the salvation of soldiers and a spiritual reformer, bluntly denouncing the inconsistance of the Medieval Catholic clergy.

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    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Joan of Arc is to me the epitome of a strong INFP on a quest. the side most people see 90% of the time is a sweet, creative, dissorganized, romantic and relaxed personality that enjoys intellectual conversation (despite being dominant feeling, many of us are extremely logical. INFJs are extremely intelligent, but frankly most of the FJs I've met are extremely illogical) and has an unusual connection to animals and small children (I am 19 and almost every time I meet a little kid, they think of me as their older brother in less than a day).
    However, that all changes when our values are violated. A strong INFP standing up for his beliefs can talk with extreme amounts of authority and charisma and sometimes can sound much older than they really are. When this switch is flipped, the INFP's normally relaxed, carefree nature becomes merciless and vindicative. We become the shining hero who fights against much stronger oppononent but triumphs through sheer resolve. This sounds a ton like Joan of Arc. she was only a 17 year old girl but lead armies and took numbers of forts commanded by seasoned verterans.

    Some of the confusion comes from the fact that INFPs are often more "J-ish" than INFJs. for example, the greatest strength of an INFP is one of judgement while the an INFJ's greatest strength is the powerful perception of introverted intuition. INFJs also tend to be much more merciful and pacifistic, INFPs have no mercy for anything they believe to be pure evil. also, with Joan of Arc, we wouldn't have heard a lot about what she was like when she was relaxed, so this could lead some people to assume she's J

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    INFJs also tend to be much more merciful and pacifistic,
    You have never had an INFJ hurt and pissed off at you before I am guessing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Litvyak View Post
    O__o

    Wow. I always saw her as an ESFJ.
    I have heard strong arguments in support of ISFP.. But stereotypes wont allow people to believe an ISFP could lead a crusade, which is just silly of course.

    The reason I would go with ISFP is her somewhat obvious use of Ni over Ne

  9. #9
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    I've heard INFP, INFJ, and ISFP too.. they all kind of make sense in some light (at least, as long as we don't bring David Keirsey into the picture).

    What's funny is that Vicky Jo (from that one INFJ website) thought she might have been ESTP! Which is funny to me, because that's the complete opposite of how Vicky sees herself.

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    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    Joan of Arc is to me the epitome of a strong INFP on a quest. the side most people see 90% of the time is a sweet, creative, dissorganized, romantic and relaxed personality that enjoys intellectual conversation (despite being dominant feeling, many of us are extremely logical. INFJs are extremely intelligent, but frankly most of the FJs I've met are extremely illogical) and has an unusual connection to animals and small children (I am 19 and almost every time I meet a little kid, they think of me as their older brother in less than a day).
    However, that all changes when our values are violated. A strong INFP standing up for his beliefs can talk with extreme amounts of authority and charisma and sometimes can sound much older than they really are. When this switch is flipped, the INFP's normally relaxed, carefree nature becomes merciless and vindicative. We become the shining hero who fights against much stronger opponent but triumphs through sheer resolve. This sounds a ton like Joan of Arc. she was only a 17 year old girl but lead armies and took numbers of forts commanded by seasoned verterans.

    Some of the confusion comes from the fact that INFPs are often more "J-ish" than INFJs. for example, the greatest strength of an INFP is one of judgement while the an INFJ's greatest strength is the powerful perception of introverted intuition. INFJs also tend to be much more merciful and pacifistic, INFPs have no mercy for anything they believe to be pure evil. also, with Joan of Arc, we wouldn't have heard a lot about what she was like when she was relaxed, so this could lead some people to assume she's J
    I agree with a lot of this, but I also agree with Arclight about INFJs having hideous tempers . However, I have noticed that tendency in them to be inconsistent. Instead of fighting for change, they just shift their perspective on an issue and take (what seems to me) the path of least resistance. INFPs are more likely to seek ways to change the status quo, not work within it. Ne is outside the box, Ni views the box as something else. The INFJ I know best is my aunt, and the minute her cause is an inconvenience, she compromises it. It comes off as very inconsistent and illogical.

    I would also say that in a match of sheer passion, I truly think an INFP would win against an INFJ. Feeling grows intensively for a Fi-dom after all, theirs extensively. When you take the cap off the INFP, feeling shoots out very forcefully.

    And yeah, ISFPs can get really ascetic....My ISFP step-dad can be way more hardcore about his spiritual beliefs than I am.

    Joan of Arc does not strike me as someone who is "healthy". I think she was a Fi-dom with her ExTJ armor on. I say Fi over Ni because her visions seemed to be of what is important, not of the future. It's difficult to say whether Se or Ne was her perspective in pursuing these ideals.

    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    What's funny is that Vicky Jo (from that one INFJ website) thought she might have been ESTP! Which is funny to me, because that's the complete opposite of how Vicky sees herself.
    I can't stand that woman....she has such a bias against INFPs, I am not surprised she would never type anyone with a backbone as INFP. She wants to paint all INFPs as useless emo hippies. :steam:
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

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