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Thread: Joan of Arc

  1. #11
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    I really can't decide. Either INFP or INFJ.

    My INFJ friend reminds me of Joan of Arc. Then again, this friend of mine might just be an INFP. also not quite sure. She is inspiring and driven to carry out her goals and passions. However, she also gets unbalanced at the drop of a hat and burns out completely. I am then there to pick up the pieces when she has her nervous breakdowns. It's kind of inspiring but kind of annoying too. Particularly when, as she's doing right now, she starts being paranoid and secretive and telling me there's so much I can't understand about her life. I know where it's going and I know I'm going to be one of the few who gets to bail her out when everything falls apart.

    Sorry, a bit OT.
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  2. #12
    Supreme High Commander Andy's Avatar
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    Like a lot of people with severe psychological problems, Joan of Arc is a little hard to type, especially given her residence in a different time periods. She definitely had some nasty sexual hang ups and was possibly schizophrenic as well (she heard voices in her head telling her what to do, though she claimed that they fell silent before they burnt her to death). She bearly used to eat at all, her favourite meal being bread crusts dipped in wine. Doesn't sound very filling, does it?

    As far as I can tell, one of the reasons she did this was to deny her own sex. In females, a near starvation level diet causes ovulation, and hence periods, to stop. She also insisted on always wearing male clothing (which was shocking for people at the time). In fact, she continued to do so even when under trial, knowing full well that the prosecuters would use it as one more excuse to call for her death.

    Given the difficulty involved, I'm not going to try and put a type to Joan of Arc, classifying her only as "very unfortunate". It's quite possible she could have been an INFP suffering in an Fi-Si loops with periods of inferior Te over activity... but it's so hard to say I'd take it as nothing more than a guess. I wont argue with anyone who thinks otherwise.
    Don't make whine out of sour grapes.

  3. #13
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    ^ She wore men's clothes to prevent herself from being raped, which is why she refused to give those clothes up when under trial, as she was being guarded by males guards who were threatening her with rape. I imagine that being a young woman in the male world of war, a male appearance went far for her, not just in terms of safety, but also respect. Not saying she was exactly "healthy", but still...
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  4. #14
    Supreme High Commander Andy's Avatar
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    She wore mens cloths long before she wound up in jail, and not just on the battlefield were practicallity would have been a concern. Still... I'd agree that she wore them as a form of protection, even if I think it was born more of internal concerns than external. Like I said, though, it was a long time ago and reliable evidence is thin.

    If you are stuck in a medieval dungeon surrounded by men armed with sword, axes, whips and god knows what else, I don't think your clothes would offer much protection unless they are made out of steel and have sharp blades projecting from them. A women in mans clothing was considered abnormal in those days and was more likely to provoke a reaction then prevent it. I could well imagine such men stripping her naked and raping her just to make the point that she wasn't a man, regardless of how she dressed.
    Don't make whine out of sour grapes.

  5. #15
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    I believe she was a mix of devotion and emotional instability. I'm not sure what her personal losses were, but apparently her childhood town was attacked and burned. On top of that, she grew up around war, so she would have seen the effect everywhere. No different than many disgruntled children in war torn areas.. except it's even worse than many modern war torn areas. That was a hundred year long methodical conquest of the English making the French live under their boot. By the time she was born, the French had mostly given up.

    As for the voices, I'm not sure if it's necessarily schizophrenic. I don't want to get into saying her voices were real (that's a matter of belief).. I've had my own weird religious experiences, and I'm not schizophrenic. I'm not sure what they are. I'll take a middle ground approach and say that I think the subconscious can also create some of these type of fantasies.. especially in high stress. Perhaps that's all she was. That maybe her longing and general worldview had created something that convinced her that God wanted her to help. Because apparently, she would make some fairly intelligent choices on the battlefield.. although they were aggressive. And she was fairly well composed when speaking. Very few people like her (especially in her time) were as grilled as she was. And yet she had somehow managed to convince a king to make her a commander in his army... out of nowhere. That might be partly his doing, but she must have played a part in it. So I'm not convinced she was schizophrenic. I've met schizophrenics.. I hate to be rude, but I usually want to leave their company sooner or later.

  6. #16
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy View Post
    She wore mens cloths long before she wound up in jail, and not just on the battlefield were practicallity would have been a concern. Still... I'd agree that she wore them as a form of protection, even if I think it was born more of internal concerns than external. Like I said, though, it was a long time ago and reliable evidence is thin.

    If you are stuck in a medieval dungeon surrounded by men armed with sword, axes, whips and god knows what else, I don't think your clothes would offer much protection unless they are made out of steel and have sharp blades projecting from them. A women in mans clothing was considered abnormal in those days and was more likely to provoke a reaction then prevent it. I could well imagine such men stripping her naked and raping her just to make the point that she wasn't a man, regardless of how she dressed.
    From what I read about her, it apparently worked. We're not talking physical practicality anyway...it's the psychological effect of presenting herself as a man to other men, particularly when she was leading them. A similar reason women donned "power suits" for the office in the 80s :P.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

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