• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

[INFJ] Self-Image of the INFJ

bronson

New member
Joined
Nov 2, 2009
Messages
93
MBTI Type
ENFJ
Enneagram
3w4
Every INFJ I know seems to have consistently low opinions of themselves.

Bad body image (even if they're attractive physically!), a lack of faith in their abilities, and even sometimes just this general melancholic, self-loathing.

Maybe I've just met a bunch with particularly low self-esteem.


Is this generally applicable to INFJ's?

Other than the useless "its not true", how can this be combatted?



Sometimes I just get so frustrated by it; it just seems so debilitating in terms of reaching their full potential.
 

Andy

Supreme High Commander
Joined
Nov 16, 2009
Messages
1,211
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w6
I'm not an INFJ, but I do at least share the same primary function, so I'll try an help out. Both INTJ and INFJ will have goals and desires that are born in their Ni. It is the nature of these goals that goes a long way to destinguishing between the two types. INFJs visions tend to be more social/emotional than the INTJs, but in both cases depression often results from an inability to make these dreams reality.

The best way to make either type happy is to find out some goal of theirs (which wont be easy, we don't share our thoughts much) and help them bring it about.

As it happens, I think both types are often depressed/frustrated. Our desires often conflict with what is considered the social norm, so people will often try to block/dissuade us. Conflict is then inevitable, as if we go ahead anyway, we end up fighting those around us. If we desist, we end up fighting with ourselves instead.

One of the tragedies of being a primary Ni is that we live in an Si world, our demon function. This website:

My MBTI Personality Type - My MBTI Results - How Frequent Is My Type?

Gives information on how common each types is. Its information came from the USA population, so others may vary but we can get general sense of things by looking at it. If you do the maths, you can see that around 25% of the population have primary Si, but only 3 or 4% have primary Ni. About 21% have Si as a secondary function, compared to 4% for Ni. This means that we'll have a hard time seeing eye to eye with nearly 50% of the human population!
 

Siúil a Rúin

when the colors fade
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
14,037
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
496
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
It can be unfortunate to be too aware of the "big picture" because you tend to realize how small you actually are. From what I understand it is the healthiest state psychologically to slightly overestimate oneself.

There is also a tendency to internalize negativity which can be a detriment to self-esteem. That isn't big picture perspective, but instead allowing oneself to collapse inward on the negativity. I guess it can be related to trying to see the big picture when the negative behavior makes no sense, it can call into question an entire world view. If I didn't understand that this person hates me (which means I don't understand how they see me, how my behavior affected them, what aspects of their experience has brought them to view the world this way, etc.) what else do I not understand?

A desire to understand people fully is an impossible goal, so that drive by its nature creates some cognitive dissonance.

That combination is not always helpful to a sense of ego.
 

vince

New member
Joined
Oct 8, 2007
Messages
320
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
6w
That might be true for all INFJs. Definitely goes for me.

Sometimes I feel/think I'm some sort of alien (physically) eventhough many people have said I'm attractive. I've learned to live with that cause I'm just too complex to sort it out. I think this comes forth from being extremely self-conscious, and also because feeling physically tired has a huge influence on my mental self-image.
Contrary to what you said this does not affect my belief in my skills/abilities. Just my self-image.

I dunno, I'm interested what other INFJs say about this.
 

vince

New member
Joined
Oct 8, 2007
Messages
320
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
6w
It can be unfortunate to be too aware of the "big picture" because you tend to realize how small you actually are.

That's very typical for INFJs. Sometimes I think we're the only type that is courageous enough to face and wear the insignificance of our existence.
 

bronson

New member
Joined
Nov 2, 2009
Messages
93
MBTI Type
ENFJ
Enneagram
3w4
I guess it would be frustrating to be primary Ni and then be least comfortable in Se because it would be difficult to find practical responses to the abstract concepts one is continually faced with.

Coz I was trying to understand - I'm an ENFJ, so same cognitive functions, different order.
I guess the tertiary Se makes me more pragmatic?

But still, why such a distinction. Not that I don't ever feel down or disconnected from reality... but the whole low-self esteem thing just seems so inherent to every INFJ I know, and I don't know how to make it go away for them. Although, they all seem to just except that that is the way they are.

There is also a tendency to internalize negativity which can be a detriment to self-esteem. That isn't big picture perspective, but instead allowing oneself to collapse inward on the negativity.

This is an interesting point. Why do you internalise negativity? When I'm faced with it I'm more likely to push it out than let it fester forever... I have to talk to someone, sort it all out; I can't stand it.
 

firstjudge

New member
Joined
May 28, 2009
Messages
33
MBTI Type
INFJ
This definitely sounds like me. It affects every aspect of my life. *sigh*
 

Siúil a Rúin

when the colors fade
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
14,037
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
496
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
This is an interesting point. Why do you internalise negativity? When I'm faced with it I'm more likely to push it out than let it fester forever... I have to talk to someone, sort it all out; I can't stand it.
Negatively charged environments can make me feel sick. When I started graduate school the U I attended was especially negative and cut-throat at the time. I would watch grad students act friendly and then cut each other down when they left the room. There were professors actively undermining other professors and trash-talking students to get a present group of students to laugh and be impressed. When I see negativity and gossip between people I know that there is no difference whether or not it is directed at me. If they do this to me, they also do this to others. If I see them do this to others they will do it to me given motivation and opportunity. There is no dividing line between myself and others (even if external behavior differs). We are only separated by different experiences. They are me and I am potentially them had I experienced the same things. When I see suffering and cruelty I recognize I am not in a safe or superior place, but instead I am part of this humanity.
 

Snuggletron

Reptilian
Joined
Sep 25, 2009
Messages
2,224
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
10
the only INFJ I know has fairly good self-esteem for what I know him for. In fact he's kind of a self-righteous asshole at times. Maybe he's wearing an INTJ skin suit with his weiner tucked in?
 

BlackCat

Shaman
Joined
Nov 19, 2008
Messages
7,038
MBTI Type
ESFP
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
My INFJ friend doesn't have a low self image at all. He likes to wear nice clothes and cologne, just because it makes him feel good and he knows that he looks good. He knows that the world sucks, and doesn't take in all of the negativity, and when he does take in some of it it doesn't affect him too much. He's a pretty happy person.
 

firstjudge

New member
Joined
May 28, 2009
Messages
33
MBTI Type
INFJ
Negatively charged environments can make me feel sick. When I started graduate school the U I attended was especially negative and cut-throat at the time. I would watch grad students act friendly and then cut each other down when they left the room. There were professors actively undermining other professors and trash-talking students to get a present group of students to laugh and be impressed. When I see negativity and gossip between people I know that there is no difference whether or not it is directed at me. If they do this to me, they also do this to others. If I see them do this to others they will do it to me given motivation and opportunity. There is no dividing line between myself and others (even if external behavior differs). We are only separated by different experiences. They are me and I am potentially them had I experienced the same things. When I see suffering and cruelty I recognize I am not in a safe or superior place, but part of this humanity.

I experienced this too. I found it intolerable and suffocating. I think that type of environment also affected my health. The sad part is that the distress the environment had caused led me to almost submit to it and become part of it. I did manage to pull away, however, and become myself again. Unfortunately, I think I've become permanently scarred from the experience.
 

Sarcasticus

Circus Maximus
Joined
May 3, 2008
Messages
1,037
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
5w4
The INFJs I know are all positive, happy people. Any type can be unhealthy so perhaps that's more the issue.
 

Siúil a Rúin

when the colors fade
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
14,037
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
496
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
I experienced this too. I found it intolerable and suffocating. I think that type of environment also affected my health. The sad part is that the distress the environment had caused led me to almost submit to it and become part of it. I did manage to pull away, however, and become myself again. Unfortunately, I think I've become permanently scarred from the experience.
It helped me to filter out the negative people and spend most of my time with the more positive ones.

I guess it's difficult to explain my own sense of self-image. I don't consider it negative exactly, but it is not strongly ego-based. The self-worth I have tends to based on the intrinsic value of a human life, so that external set-backs of "failure" are less likely to impact me than most, but I am also not easily inflated by successes. The core of my self-worth is quiet, buried deeply, and stable, and not always apparent to others in terms of assertiveness and other typical social measures.

Edit: Perhaps the question of the thread is not so much whether INFJs have a low self-image, but how the type forms a self-image in contrast to how another type might. External vs. internal validation, introversion vs. extroversion, empathy vs. detachment, and all these things can form different basis for how a sense of self is formed for various types.
 

Siúil a Rúin

when the colors fade
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
14,037
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
496
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
This thread is still young, but it is interesting that so far every INFJ post has explored the issue in an open manner, and the non-INFJs who report knowing the type state that the "INFJ is happy and confident". Society dictates that people appear confident by what they wear, how they present themselves socially, how successful they are professionally. Many people respond to these requirements regardless of how they feel internally. On one level these are a measure of a person's self-worth, but the whole concept of self-identity is complex and I would venture to guess that there is not such a thing as someone completely without self-worth or completely without self-doubt. It is a complex issue when approached in an analytical, introspective way.

What can be interesting for people in general (and possibly INFJ?) is that the external presentation of self can have little relationship to what is going on inside. When I was young and suffering from depression, no one had any idea. I smiled at everyone and was successful externally. I was up front performing art and taking leadership roles in school. In contrast, there are also times when I am deeply happy in life, but withdrawing in analysis, and people have asked me what is wrong.

If I had to guess, I would say that on some level most people struggle in their formation of a sense of self. There is a healthy range that allows for both positive and negative concepts that need to be addressed. Society requires that we present only the positive, but it is also healthy to internally address the negative. It doesn't have to be powerful or scary to doubt oneself. It is one of the best chances a person has to grow.
 

cascadeco

New member
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
9,083
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
9w1
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
I think my friends would consider me very put-together, pretty balanced, calm, and affirming. I care about my appearance, I take care of myself physically, and I do really try to view things in a more optimistic light than negative one; I hate being cynical/pessimistic, so I choose to try not to be so. I love to laugh, and have fun, well, having fun...I think it's why I enjoy more Se-typical activities, as they get me out of my head and I feel more balanced. I tend not to dwell on my more negative thoughts when I'm talking to others, so they wouldn't necessarily see that side of me. I almost always try to put on a happy/chipper/upbeat face, although with those I'm super close to, I give myself permission to not bother doing that, sometimes.

Sometimes I AM very optimistic, happy, and excited. It's not like I'm never like that; it's just not my 'base level'.

But I've *always* struggled with self-esteem issues, my entire life, and I'm incredibly self-critical. I had severely low self-confidence while a teenager and it still comes and goes on occasion, although thankfully it's a lot better than it used to be. Also prone to depressive thoughts. As far as why I do this, I think I have an adverse personal reaction to thinking more highly of myself than is reasonable; so in my [perhaps failed] attempt to try to be objective, I give my more negative traits equal weight with my more positive ones; therefore I will never act as if I'm totally awesome, and exhibit huge amounts of confidence, because I don't think that's 'accurate' and I don't think it's true, as I have flaws as well. I dunno. I'm not saying this is a good way to view myself, I'm just trying to explain why I'm not brimming with confidence in myself.
 

EcK

The Memes Justify the End
Joined
Nov 21, 2008
Messages
7,708
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
738
the only INFJ I know has fairly good self-esteem for what I know him for. In fact he's kind of a self-righteous asshole at times. Maybe he's wearing an INTJ skin suit with his weiner tucked in?

oh?
How long have you been friends with peguy ?:coffee:
 
P

Phantonym

Guest
I think my friends would consider me very put-together, pretty balanced, calm, and affirming. I care about my appearance, I take care of myself physically, and I do really try to view things in a more optimistic light than negative one; I hate being cynical/pessimistic, so I choose to try not to be so. I love to laugh, and have fun, well, having fun...I think it's why I enjoy more Se-typical activities, as they get me out of my head and I feel more balanced. I tend not to dwell on my more negative thoughts when I'm talking to others, so they wouldn't necessarily see that side of me. I almost always try to put on a happy/chipper/upbeat face, although with those I'm super close to, I give myself permission to not bother doing that, sometimes.

Sometimes I AM very optimistic, happy, and excited. It's not like I'm never like that; it's just not my 'base level'.

But I've *always* struggled with self-esteem issues, my entire life, and I'm incredibly self-critical. I had severely low self-confidence while a teenager and it still comes and goes on occasion, although thankfully it's a lot better than it used to be. Also prone to depressive thoughts. As far as why I do this, I think I have an adverse personal reaction to thinking more highly of myself than is reasonable; so in my [perhaps failed] attempt to try to be objective, I give my more negative traits equal weight with my more positive ones; therefore I will never act as if I'm totally awesome, and exhibit huge amounts of confidence, because I don't think that's 'accurate' and I don't think it's true, as I have flaws as well. I dunno. I'm not saying this is a good way to view myself, I'm just trying to explain why I'm not brimming with confidence in myself.

Ok, now this is very strange. I could have written all of this because it applies to me 100%. :thelook:

:laugh: Yeeeaah, I have nothing more to add to this thread now. Thanks, cascadeco! :)
 

cascadeco

New member
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
9,083
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
9w1
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Ok, now this is very strange. I could have written all of this because it applies to me 100%. :thelook:

:laugh: Yeeeaah, I have nothing more to add to this thread now. Thanks, cascadeco! :)

:smile: Glad I could be of assistance! ;)
 

vince

New member
Joined
Oct 8, 2007
Messages
320
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
6w
This thread is still young, but it is interesting that so far every INFJ post has explored the issue in an open manner, and the non-INFJs who report knowing the type state that the "INFJ is happy and confident". Society dictates that people appear confident by what they wear, how they present themselves socially, how successful they are professionally. Many people respond to these requirements regardless of how they feel internally.

I fully agree with that.
I've heard many times that I appear very confident, easygoing, happy, ... It's kind of shocking how my own image differs from the image other people have of me.
 
Top