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  1. #21
    The King Liason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EcK View Post
    oh?
    How long have you been friends with peguy ?
    XD lmao. Peguy is fine. lol. But yes, any type when healthy has good self-confidence, and when not, has low self-confidence.
    The Symbol of the King*The Absolute Does Not Exist*Kingship Will Bring Me Freedom
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  2. #22
    violaine
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    Cascade, your post really resonates.

    I have a positive self-image BUT it's because I meet the standards that I set for myself. When I fall short I can feel bad about myself... I have really worked on short-circuiting that by refuting the negative self-talk that goes on in my head and trying to relax my standards a bit. Feeling good about oneself is a decision one can make and that's what I did.

    I am a vigilant type of person and I notice I still do worry more about things that seem inconsequential to others as a means of refining myself. (Like making obvious mistakes.) INFJs commonly experience dissatisfaction with themselves due to feeling they are not fulfilling their potential... It can be very disheartening. I've learned to let go of a lot of those unhealthy mental habits that result in never being satisfied with oneself.

    Applying the enneagram personal growth recommendations for E5 is what really helped me to be more relaxed and become more positive about myself. Engaging in regular, vigorous exercise is essential for me, integrates me into my body and makes me feel strong and confident.

    Actually, I noticed a very confident self emerge after working through those recommendations. Everyone around me did as well, though I believe they may have used the word 'aggressive' for a time while I was balancing myself out.

  3. #23
    Member Felix's Avatar
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    Yeah it's something I have struggled with my whole life. It doesn't seem to go, no matter what action I take or what I learn or read or do or don't do or talk about or ignore or blah blah blah etc. etc. I don't understand it at all.

  4. #24
    A Benign Tumor PoprocksAndCoke's Avatar
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    Ever had that feeling when someone takes something and waves it in front of you and you just can't seem to get it from them?
    "In order for the light to shine so brightly, the darkness must be present." -Francis Bacon

    "No matter how dark the moment, love and hope are always possible." -George Chakiris

  5. #25
    Member bronson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    Perhaps the question of the thread is not so much whether INFJs have a low self-image, but how the type forms a self-image in contrast to how another type might. External vs. internal validation, introversion vs. extroversion, empathy vs. detachment, and all these things can form different basis for how a sense of self is formed for various types.
    Sure, that will also be interesting to discuss, feel free. But I still want to know about the INFJ. I really need to know how to help... my sister and best friend are INFJ's with low self worth, and if I could do anything to make them not believe such things about themselves I would.
    (Also, my sister became a bit more confident in herself when she started Uni and began to express herself in a more intellectually free capacity, rather than being constrained by concrete SJ values).

    Also other non-INFJ posters, I think a couple of NT's, keep generalising that any type can have good or bad self-esteem.
    Sure, I agree... but I want to know about the INFJ in particular as it seems pretty consistent, especially after reading all the INFJ posters in this thread.


    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    This thread is still young, but it is interesting that so far every INFJ post has explored the issue in an open manner, and the non-INFJs who report knowing the type state that the "INFJ is happy and confident".
    This has really been the case hey. Everyone else has this conception that INFJ's are quiet yet happy and confident individuals.
    And I'd aggree that most of the INFJ's I know present themselves like this to most of the world, but in actuality, underneath, lifes a bit of a struggle.


    Quote Originally Posted by firstjudge View Post
    I experienced this too. I found it intolerable and suffocating. I think that type of environment also affected my health. The sad part is that the distress the environment had caused led me to almost submit to it and become part of it. I did manage to pull away, however, and become myself again. Unfortunately, I think I've become permanently scarred from the experience.
    I also have gone through this. I honestly think that it is our Fe process losing the ability to form a harmonious environment around us, and the Ni picking up the full intellectual clashes that arise between individuals and everything seems so hopeless. Its full on, and you can definitely feel like you're losing yourself. Important to take time our and re-centre yourself, as lame as that may sound, otherwise you end up in a pile on the floor, metaphorically of course.



    So, I guess another question, after reading through these posts...
    Do you think INFJ's (similar to ENFJ's) project a different outward image for others to read than what their true self is experiencing?

    ENFJ's project a huge variety of 'masks' mainly for social purposes.
    But if the INFJ is doing a similar thing, it possibly seems to be more to hide what is really going on... or even to try and ignore it themselves for a time?

  6. #26
    man-made neptunesnet's Avatar
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    Bronson, I don't know.

    I know two INFJs. One is very sweet and kind in front of strangers but in the company of people she knows is kind of pompous. A little overly confident sometimes. The other one is more quiet and cynical. Doesn't exactly have low self-esteem, though. I don't mean to doubt your typing (I'm definitely not the best typer on this forum), but are you sure they're INFJs?

  7. #27
    Senior Member mwv6r's Avatar
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    I have mixed feelings on the topic of INFJ self-esteem. On the one hand, it's true that I will never have the super-human confidence of an ESTJ or the swagger of an ESTP. On the other hand, I feel that overall I am a well-adjusted, optimistic person who is in a pretty good mood most of the time. I will say that I think certain types may be more prone to depression and self-esteem problems than others, and INFJs may be rather high on that list (though not as high as INFPs, oyyy I've known some tortured INFPs). Anyway, I can certainly see how self-esteem can be a problem for many INFJs, but I don't think that should be generalized to all INFJs, all the time. I've had dark periods in my life but recent years have been very positive for me. A healthy diet and regular exercise, and seeking out healthy relationships and work environments goes a long way, and I'm sure this is true for any type. Honestly, learning about MBTI was something of a turning point for me too; it really helped me accept myself in addition to understanding others. So I guess this is an INFJ stating for the record that maybe my self-esteem's not the greatest, but it's good enough to serve me pretty well . And who knows, maybe all the other types out there have too much self-esteem and it's actually us who are just right

  8. #28
    Member bronson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mwv6r View Post
    I will say that I think certain types may be more prone to depression and self-esteem problems than others, and INFJs may be rather high on that list (though not as high as INFPs, oyyy I've known some tortured INFPs).

    Anyway, I can certainly see how self-esteem can be a problem for many INFJs, but I don't think that should be generalized to all INFJs, all the time. I've had dark periods in my life but recent years have been very positive for me.

    And who knows, maybe all the other types out there have too much self-esteem and it's actually us who are just right
    True.

    Quote Originally Posted by neptunesnet View Post
    I don't mean to doubt your typing (I'm definitely not the best typer on this forum), but are you sure they're INFJs?
    Hmm, well, the only reason I know they are is because they've all done the test, and yeh well they fit the description.

    I'm not saying its everything they are... I just noticed that of the ones I know they seem to have a bit of a problem with self-esteem or confidence in themselves at times. I guess 4 or 5 people isn't exactly a random sample

    But the INFJ's who have responded to this thread seem to concur that it can be a problem they struggle with at times... so maybe there is something in it.

    Dunno

  9. #29
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    e5 and especially the e4 part struggle.

    i oscillate between being wildly in love with myself and being totally embarrassed and ashamed. with age i've evened out a little bit.

    when i was younger i was super judgy, then unfortunately it grew out of control and turned inward on me. a lot of it was just stunted growth in various ways that took time to work out, overcome fears, bounce back from failures, etc.

    infjs are generally much much much more sensitive than enfjs, who behave like trains. we generally feel far less in control, and far more self-aware in an abstract, rigid, untested kind of way (vs the practiced and polished Fe enfj self-presentation). we are full of a lot more wouldn'ts and horrifying embarassments.

  10. #30
    Badoom~ Skyward's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bronson View Post
    Every INFJ I know seems to have consistently low opinions of themselves.

    Bad body image (even if they're attractive physically!), a lack of faith in their abilities, and even sometimes just this general melancholic, self-loathing.

    Maybe I've just met a bunch with particularly low self-esteem.


    Is this generally applicable to INFJ's?

    Other than the useless "its not true", how can this be combatted?



    Sometimes I just get so frustrated by it; it just seems so debilitating in terms of reaching their full potential.

    Depends on where the person is in life. For me, I am learning about myself and become frustrating knowing that I burned 4-5 years of my life on videogames, effectively hamstringing my social skills. When I have a smooth, rolling conversation with someone I feel much better about myself for a while. I need to DO something that contradicts my negative self image. That's hard since how you view yourself generally plays itself out.

    I like how I look in the mirror, but hate how I look in pictures. I am proud of my eyes, a thin hazel ring around the pupil and a greyish blue surrounding that, but it's frustrating knowing that my glasses block that (and that I have to wear glasses for everything, not just reading)

    In general, finding new interesting people, and staying social gets me into a good mood and boosts my confidence the best. My self esteem is more like a see-saw than just-low, at least.

    Quote Originally Posted by the state i am in View Post
    e5 and especially the e4 part struggle.

    i oscillate between being wildly in love with myself and being totally embarrassed and ashamed. with age i've evened out a little bit.

    when i was younger i was super judgy, then unfortunately it grew out of control and turned inward on me. a lot of it was just stunted growth in various ways that took time to work out, overcome fears, bounce back from failures, etc.

    infjs are generally much much much more sensitive than enfjs, who behave like trains. we generally feel far less in control, and far more self-aware in an abstract, rigid, untested kind of way (vs the practiced and polished Fe enfj self-presentation). we are full of a lot more wouldn'ts and horrifying embarassments.
    +1, great description.

    I'm going through all that bit, just wish my mind was more clear. Trying to think feels like fishing in mud sometimes.
    'Imperfection is beauty, madness is genius and its better to be absolutely ridiculous than absolutely boring.' - Marilyn Monroe

    This is who I am, escapist, paradise-seeker.
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    Anthropology Major out of Hamline University. St. Paul, Minnesota.

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