User Tag List

First 34567 Last

Results 41 to 50 of 84

  1. #41
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    1
    Posts
    3,823

    Default

    looking forward to it. and you're right in saying that Ni is so clear in its strengths and weaknesses. with the added dimension of interacting with the world it gets a) more interesting and b) more practical to analyze.

    i know i certainly have problems when I'm feeling like running on my Ni and get shut down by others. it brings out my annoyance/stress behavior after a while.
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
    C.S. Lewis

  2. #42
    RETIRED CzeCze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    MBTI
    GONE
    Posts
    9,051

    Default Family Types

    I think we may be blurrinng the lines between personality type and very singular, unique family dynamics for our individual families when we start using interfamily examples to assess a type et. al.

    I just wanted to throw that out for folks to keep that in mind.

    Especially for parent/child relations, your parent especially your mother traditionally will have license to speak to you like a child. Because you are. Theirs. And I think also as you mature from childhood to actual adulthood to having a family of your own, your dynamics with parents change, the stressors change, and it's these temporal factors that can explain some tensions in your interactions with parents, not necessarily purely personality type.

    For my 2 cents, my relationship with my brother I acknowledge to be singularly a family dynamic. And NOT a typical INXP/ENXP relationship. I actually find him to be a no hope in hell asshole a lot of the time and I would NEVER put up with his kind of behavior from ANYONE else, but since he's family, watcha gonna do, right? Just try to get by the best one can.

    Specifically, it does bug me to see people bashing ENFPs for being frustrating to deal with. But when that ENFP is your mom, I mean...aren't mom relationships supposd to be frustrating?

    I just don't think it's fair or accurate to assess all XXXX's based on interaction with just 1 or a few of that type, especially if that type is mostly limited to your own family members.

  3. #43
    RETIRED CzeCze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    MBTI
    GONE
    Posts
    9,051

    Default Also --

    Wow, I'm really surprised no one has commented on the "ENFx's/self-righteous' comment.

    So I'll volunteer!

    I take exception to the observation that ENFx's are self-rigtheous. I acknowledge this is one person's honest opinion and yes it's valid. But --

    1) It bothers me to think ENFx's are considered self-righteous by a majority of people or "all NTs" etc.
    2) It moreso bothers me that someone might be stating their personal opinion as fact which leads me to
    3) I feel compelled to point out that perception is everything.

    I think the whole point of studying intertype relations hinges on the understanding that there are several competing equally valid POVs, realities, truths, and ways of being with the world. We're all just trying to make peace with the world in ourselves.

    Even the statement 'this person is self-righteous' hinges on the fact that you think you are more correct than said self-righteous person, which is in itself a subjective opinion.

    I guess we can split hairs, but when you say someone is self-righteous, do you state this as the objective and only and universal truth? I disagree with this.

    Or do you mean exactly that, this is my experience and from my POV and it's valid. I can't argue with this.

    And further, do you mean that if you find someone self-righteous they should change their behavior for you or that you have the right to ask them to modify their behavior to something you find less displeasing? Do you discount this person's POV or what they are expressing because of their off-putting attitude or do you listen to what is being said and are simply greatly annoyed at their attitude?

    Even something as simple as "I don't like the way this person does X" is open to SOOO many more questions and philosophizing and debating so I'll just leave it at that.

  4. #44
    Senior Member Roger Mexico's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Posts
    131

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze View Post
    Wow, I'm really surprised no one has commented on the "ENFx's/self-righteous' comment.

    So I'll volunteer!

    I take exception to the observation that ENFx's are self-rigtheous. I acknowledge this is one person's honest opinion and yes it's valid. But --

    1) It bothers me to think ENFx's are considered self-righteous by a majority of people or "all NTs" etc.
    2) It moreso bothers me that someone might be stating their personal opinion as fact which leads me to
    3) I feel compelled to point out that perception is everything.

    ...


    I guess we can split hairs, but when you say someone is self-righteous, do you state this as the objective and only and universal truth? I disagree with this.

    Or do you mean exactly that, this is my experience and from my POV and it's valid. I can't argue with this.

    And further, do you mean that if you find someone self-righteous they should change their behavior for you or that you have the right to ask them to modify their behavior to something you find less displeasing? Do you discount this person's POV or what they are expressing because of their off-putting attitude or do you listen to what is being said and are simply greatly annoyed at their attitude?

    Hmm, well, an NT response would have to point out that the fact that an assertion "bugs you" doesn't undermine its objective validity.

    "Self-righteousness" is of course a relative and subjective assessment, but that doesn't mean one can't approach the question of what constitutes self-righteousness from an objective standpoint. I'm sure you've encountered people who struck you as self-righteous, and we could probably compare everyone's experiences with similar behavior to draw up a list of common criteria by which we all tend to assess such things. I'd say it has to do with a person treating their own preferences as though they were a moral imperative without giving the same consideration to others. I'd say the definition of self-righteousness is an unwillingness to examine and modify your behavior if it's negatively affecting someone else.

    I guess I'd say anyone who isn't a trained psychologist isn't qualified to make broad categorical statements about how every individual of a given type would behave. As such, I wouldn't take anything you read here as much more than conjecture.

    However, I think what we're doing here is trying to associate behavior we've observed with what we know about type dynamics. To say that we've observed similar behavior among individuals who are known or suspected to be ENFP's isn't a deterministic statement about everyone who fits this type, but rather an attempt to understand if the behavior arises from characteristics of an ENFP personality.

    I think what we've brought out is that there's a potential for frustration arising from an individual's use of their own emotions as a justification for disregarding legitimate complaints about their behavior brought to them by others. If, as it's been suggested, ENFP emotional sensitivity and desire for affection makes an ENFP more likely to use this kind of tactic when in conflict with someone else, then that would shed some light on the subject.

    I guess as far as prescriptive ethics are concerned, I believe I have a right to expect the people with whom I interact to be as considerate of my emotions as I am of theirs. Part of this consideration is an understanding that I experience emotional distress when a person with whom I'm speaking refuses to consider a logical perspective on what we're discussing. When I'm dealing with someone who is a dominant Feeling type, I understand that they may not approach the issue primarily from a logical/Thinking point of view, but they should at the least be willing to meet me halfway--I'll respect your emotions by considering how my tone and phrasing affect you emotionally as long as you're willing to respect my need for logical coherence by considering how your emotional state relates to observable, rationally deducible reality.

    If you insist on treating your own emotional state as the only relevant measure of appropriate behavior, you're being inconsiderate, and doing so with the deliberate intention of guilting or intimidating the other person into silence or acquiescence is a form of manipulation and abuse.

    This post is getting long, so I'll presume you've read the thread and you understand why someone with a strong need to have things laid out logically (an NT) would experience frustration having to regularly deal with an ENFP who couldn't check their own emotional sensitivity enough to hear us out. And, yes, active refusal to check oneself in this way is just as much a form of arrogance as any NT's refusal to tone down their language if it's upsetting to the person they're speaking to.

  5. #45
    To the top of the world arcticangel02's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    MBTI
    eNFP
    Posts
    892

    Default

    If you insist on treating your own emotional state as the only relevant measure of appropriate behavior, you're being inconsiderate, and doing so with the deliberate intention of guilting or intimidating the other person into silence or acquiescence is a form of manipulation and abuse.

    This post is getting long, so I'll presume you've read the thread and you understand why someone with a strong need to have things laid out logically (an NT) would experience frustration having to regularly deal with an ENFP who couldn't check their own emotional sensitivity enough to respect our point of view. And, yes, active refusal to check oneself in this way is just as much a form of arrogance as any NT's refusal to tone down their language if it's upsetting to the person they're speaking to.
    But 'refusing to check oneself' is a problem with an immature individual of any type. Any F can be overbearing and emotional, and insist on getting insulted whenever someone isn't perfectly 'nice'. And similarly, any T can be abrasive and inconsiderate and refuse to consider others feelings.

    I don't necessarily think that certain types are more or less likely to exhibit these faults, either.

    Anyway, that's not really what we're discussing, is it? ^^ I don't have much to say about ENFx's being self-righteous. I suppose a particularly insecure/paranoid individual would be liable to guilt-trip anyone who isn't totally considerate to their whims (but then that all goes back to the 'heart grenade' thing).

  6. #46

    Default

    Wow... I don't even have a clue as to what's going on but that thing just sounded hostile roger! Yipes!
    lol

    So I pretty much laugh everything away. I found this thread to be quite disconcerting and even had me questioning whether or not I am really ENFP. I don't fit damn near anything that I've read here, unlike the ENFP fact or fiction thread.

    Not sure if I am more developed in some areas but for me life is a game. I gotta play it the best I can and only when things get real heavy, like when a lady died on me and I gave her CPR to no avail this summer, or when someone I really care about completely ignores me, do I start to feel anything other than joy for life.

    I guess I would say I am not emotionally sensitive unless someone seriously wrongs me. You can chide me all you want, berate me, degrade me but I will almost always just laugh at you instead. No 'heart grenades' to throw.

    So to summarize, for me things don't stick unless it's from someone very very close to me or when I have to deal with the reality of death.

  7. #47
    To the top of the world arcticangel02's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    MBTI
    eNFP
    Posts
    892

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by findthejake View Post
    So I pretty much laugh everything away. I found this thread to be quite disconcerting and even had me questioning whether or not I am really ENFP. I don't fit damn near anything that I've read here, unlike the ENFP fact or fiction thread.
    I know where you're coming from - this thread doesn't sound much like me, either.

    But I guess we just have to remember that they're looking at negative/immature behaviours, which is unlikely to be an issue in a healthy, mature individuals like ourselves. :rolli:

  8. #48

    Default

    true that yo. true that.

  9. #49
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    MBTI
    eNFJ
    Enneagram
    4w3 sx/so
    Socionics
    eNFJ Ni
    Posts
    11,443

    Default

    I know I'm new here (and a bit late in the conversation) but my twin sister is an ENFP, and having her around has been an immense help to me in understanding how just one letter can make such a marked difference in two personalities. As a J, I tend to see things in a very clear cut manner. Wrong/right. On/off. As a P, she's a big help in keeping my doors open longer to admit things that I might have initially ruled out. In turn, I assist her with defining and clarifying her feelings. She's repeatedly told me how much she hates the fact that she can't make a decision (which isn't true -- she just takes longer and considers things for a longer period of time than I do) or how she wishes she were more defined.

    We have another ENFP friend, and when the two of them are in the same room, they stare at each other like two curious animals because they both feel like they have about as much definition as a cloud, and being exposed to one another for any period of time inevitably elicits statements such as "Am I really that goofy?" and "No wonder people never know what to buy me for Christmas!" lol I've reassured her that she DOES have definition, but more in a fluid manner, like water.

  10. #50
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    MBTI
    eNFJ
    Enneagram
    4w3 sx/so
    Socionics
    eNFJ Ni
    Posts
    11,443

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by findthejake View Post
    Wow... I don't even have a clue as to what's going on but that thing just sounded hostile roger! Yipes!
    lol

    So I pretty much laugh everything away. I found this thread to be quite disconcerting and even had me questioning whether or not I am really ENFP. I don't fit damn near anything that I've read here, unlike the ENFP fact or fiction thread.

    Not sure if I am more developed in some areas but for me life is a game. I gotta play it the best I can and only when things get real heavy, like when a lady died on me and I gave her CPR to no avail this summer, or when someone I really care about completely ignores me, do I start to feel anything other than joy for life.

    I guess I would say I am not emotionally sensitive unless someone seriously wrongs me. You can chide me all you want, berate me, degrade me but I will almost always just laugh at you instead. No 'heart grenades' to throw.

    So to summarize, for me things don't stick unless it's from someone very very close to me or when I have to deal with the reality of death.

    If an opinion from a stranger helps, you struck me right away as an ENTP. I'm usually surrounded by ENTPs and most of your statements hit the bulls-eye for the way my ENTPs talk and comport themselves. Just for what it's worth.

Similar Threads

  1. [ENFP] What's wrong with the ENFP?
    By Waffle in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 65
    Last Post: 02-17-2014, 12:43 AM
  2. [ENFP] The ENFP Male
    By Angry Ayrab in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 07-10-2013, 07:29 PM
  3. [ENFP] The ENFP Te Demand
    By Kalach in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 169
    Last Post: 09-29-2009, 02:11 PM
  4. [ENFP] Learning the ENFP jedi mind tricks...
    By MattC333 in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 06-12-2009, 01:28 AM
  5. [ENFP] The ENFP "investigative journalist mode"
    By autumn in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 04-05-2008, 01:00 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO