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  1. #1
    Crazy Diamond Billy's Avatar
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    Default INFJ and NF sub-categories.

    I want to further classify INFJs and possibly all NFs.

    The 2 most glaring categories I can think of would be:

    False Idealists - Idealism
    True Idealists - Realism


    False Idealist:
    Idealism to the max, you would rather destroy all just to prove your point of idealism. These types of INFJs/NF's will often forcefully defend ridiculous and absurd ideas that are ideal in nature, but do not work so well in reality because not everyone thinks the same. Usually young and naive, this is an NF who hasn't actually had much experience in dealing with the real world or who has lived a more comfortable life in general. They claim to be idealists, but their narrow vision of reality and their tenacious grip on their unflinching emotionally based idealism makes them more harmful than good because they will inevitably end up trampling someone elses freedom in order to push their views.

    True Idealist:
    Idealism within logical reason. This is a person who sees an ideal and then strives and works towards it in a more ethical way. This person will usually understand that an ideal may not be possible, but we can get closer than we are, an so goes to effect that true positive change within the framework of our society's system. Instead of ignoring that not everyone can agree, the true idealist will offer solutions that include concessions for opposing view points. Because they are more realistic in this fashion they will effect more positive change over time than a false idealist ever can. This in essence will improve lives of people for real and not just in theory. True idealists deal with reality 1st then bring their creative talents to the table. This is a person who has likely tasted reality and knows both triumph and defeat. More than likely has lived a life that has had periods of intense pain and suffering and as such knows what true penalties can lay in wait for a person just short of death. This kind of INFJ/NF knows the boundaries of reality and works to ensure their vision is fulfilled as fully as possible within those limits.

  2. #2
    A Benign Tumor PoprocksAndCoke's Avatar
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    That sucks, I'm a "True Idealist".
    "In order for the light to shine so brightly, the darkness must be present." -Francis Bacon

    "No matter how dark the moment, love and hope are always possible." -George Chakiris

  3. #3
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    Do you have any examples (historical figures) of a "True idealist"? I was just wondering, because I really can't think of any.

    I am also a little skeptical of calling them "true idealists", since from your description, it sounds more like a idealist who has been forcibly made more realist. So a balance between realism and idealism.

  4. #4
    Crazy Diamond Billy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sgman View Post
    Do you have any examples (historical figures) of a "True idealist"? I was just wondering, because I really can't think of any.

    I am also a little skeptical of calling them "true idealists", since from your description, it sounds more like a idealist who has been forcibly made more realist. So a balance between realism and idealism.
    I cant think of any true idealists who didn't get killed for their beliefs anyway lol.

    But I think thats because those kinds of idealists dont take the spot light with thier insane positions. They tend to work more within the structure. And get noticed way less.

    And a balance between Idealism and realism IMO makes a True idealist because they will often times achieve more progress in terms of making their ideals come true then their blind zealot of a cousin who will often times not be able to effect much change because their unflinching vision is not palatable to enough people to take effect.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Keps Mnemnosyne's Avatar
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    I don't mean to be offensive, but your sub-categories seem to be INFJs who are like Billy are awesome and INFJs not like Billy suck. Or was that the point?
    Love wouldn't exist without loneliness to inspire it.

    Peach yogurt is made of love. And gnome kidneys. - Domino

    I can cope and will cope without polluting my lungs. - Saslou

  6. #6
    Crazy Diamond Billy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keps Mnemnosyne View Post
    I don't mean to be offensive, but your sub-categories seem to be INFJs who are like Billy are awesome and INFJs not like Billy suck. Or was that the point?
    Oh thats definitely how I feel personally, I find it tiresome to deal with unrealistic idealists. I didn't make an attempt to hide that or pretend to be objective in my wording, but I think I am still onto something with my categories. I think they still have merit and describe 2 actual types of INFJs. Or did you just want to talk about me?

  7. #7
    Senior Member Keps Mnemnosyne's Avatar
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    No, I just wanted to understand. Thanks for the quick reply.

    I would have to disagree with your categories as they are. I would most likely be known as somebody who has unrealistic ideals, but I am not naive. I also don't find myself doing more harm than good. Granted I do hide this very well under a mask of realism or what my friends call pessimism only showing my dreams to close friends.

    May I ask why the non-objectivity? For you seem to be causing more harm than good, by posing this topic as you have. I do think this theory has it's merits (realism versus idealism, how much does each one sway a person), just without objectivity it will be dismissed quite quickly.
    Love wouldn't exist without loneliness to inspire it.

    Peach yogurt is made of love. And gnome kidneys. - Domino

    I can cope and will cope without polluting my lungs. - Saslou

  8. #8
    Crazy Diamond Billy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keps Mnemnosyne View Post
    No, I just wanted to understand. Thanks for the quick reply.

    I would have to disagree with your categories as they are. I would most likely be known as somebody who has unrealistic ideals, but I am not naive. I also don't find myself doing more harm than good. Granted I do hide this very well under a mask of realism or what my friends call pessimism only showing my dreams to close friends.

    May I ask why the non-objectivity? For you seem to be causing more harm than good, by posing this topic as you have. I do think this theory has it's merits (realism versus idealism, how much does each one sway a person), just without objectivity it will be dismissed quite quickly.
    Honestly I was too lazy to figure out how to word it objectively. It was much easier to just go with how I felt. If you would like to help me reword it so that the its not as me biased that would be a good start.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Keps Mnemnosyne's Avatar
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    Do it when you have time, no rush is needed. But yes, I think this would be a good discussion idea.
    Love wouldn't exist without loneliness to inspire it.

    Peach yogurt is made of love. And gnome kidneys. - Domino

    I can cope and will cope without polluting my lungs. - Saslou

  10. #10
    Senior Member Rebe's Avatar
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    I very much disagree with your categories. You're trying to put some kind of rational limit to idealism and the definition of idealism is not 'naive' but rather, almost 'impossible'. That's what ideals are. People strive for what is extremely hard to obtain and sure, maybe most of the population won't agree with you, but that's because INFPs and INFJs sees through all the bullshit. If the majority agree with your ideals, they are not quite ideals, but just regular 'dreams' or 'beliefs'. The idea of idealism contradicts with rationality, it is more tied with a high sense of morals and extreme emotions. Idealism by nature is impractical. Now, INFPs/INFJs vary greatly on the spectrum of idealism. What exactly is naive idealism? Was Gandhi naively idealistic to think he could change the political power of his country without violence?

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