[Fe] Developing Fe

[sculpting]

The below technique seems to call up Fe, at least for an ENFP.

It may be of most value to those who have Te rage, overwhelming Fi emotional pain and fluctuation, or Fi users who suffer from chronic fatigue, chronic pain or autoimmune disorders.

I am content to think thoughts in my head. I cringe at sharing this.

I suspect Fe users have increased basal cortisol levels relative to Fi users.

1. Relax your face.
2. Release tension (Te for an ENFP)
3. Construct a mask.
a. Make a fake smile. Only your mouth. Only a very slight smile. Too much will be tiring. Intentionally relax the muscles around your eyes. The eyes are very important. Real smiles use the ocular muscles.
b. Fix the mask. Let it gently respond, but only very slightly. Your eyes are free to move. Your mask/eye muscles are not. Don’t move your brow, don’t tense your eye muscles, little movement of the smile.
c. Mentally detach your mind from the mask. Your mind is free to think anything. Your mask must not move in response. It is a barrier.
d. Your thoughts are not your mask.
4. Construct a mental mantra to remind you to not allow the other to see your pain. Even if you scream in emotional agony internally, do not allow the mask to change.
5. Do this for several days. Constant.

The first day was emotionally painful and confusing, nonauthentic. On the second day the internal pain was gone. A sense of relaxation and calmness permeated. By the third day I did not need to smile anymore. Instead just maintain the mask. By the fourth day the mental state flowed very naturally and is pervasive.

By the second week I can call the mental state of Fe calmness/affection when needed. Fi is very quiet but peeks up now and then. It can be called it on demand or quelled. Te quibbles with Fe. It is marked by a mild increase in anxiety as it surfaces. Ne has become Ni, although I really am uncertain what to do with it.

My hope is this is of value to a few.

 

[brainheart]

Why? Why do you want Fe and Ni vs Ne and Fi? And is that really what you're doing?

 

[Scott N Denver]

do you find doing this helpful for you? Arent you in sales or marketing for a technical company as a technical person, hence your meeting, and needing to "impress" in a sales sense, lots of people?

 

[proteanmix]

I'm not really understanding how this relates to developing Fe. Does contorting your face into fake smile make you Fe proficient or are you talking about "fake it till you make it"?

 

[Scott N Denver]

Perhaps this should be titled "How to fake the physical appearance of Fe as may be needed or required at work or the social world"??? "Socially getting by: appearances/illusions of Fe display"???

 

[proteanmix]

Second thoughts on your post.

I think I see what you're getting at. Are you trying to map a way to neutralize your own emotions in order to be more receptive to those of others? It's like having two stereos on blast; you're trying to turn down one in order to hear the other?

1. Relax your face.
2. Release tension (Te for an ENFP)
3. Construct a mask.
a. Make a fake smile. Only your mouth. Only a very slight smile. Too much will be tiring. Intentionally relax the muscles around your eyes. The eyes are very important. Real smiles use the ocular muscles.
b. Fix the mask. Let it gently respond, but only very slightly. Your eyes are free to move. Your mask/eye muscles are not. Don’t move your brow, don’t tense your eye muscles, little movement of the smile.
c. Mentally detach your mind from the mask. Your mind is free to think anything. Your mask must not move in response. It is a barrier.
OK, I definitely get this part. I was actually thinking about this earlier today in the form of body language, how in order to control or be aware of your own personal body language as a possible communication barrier with others. Like scrunching your nose or exhaling heavily when you're telling someone you agree with them. Your words are saying one thing but your body language is saying another.
d. Your thoughts are not your mask. Yes
4. Construct a mental mantra to remind you to not allow the other to see your pain. Even if you scream in emotional agony internally, do not allow the mask to change.
5. Do this for several days. Constant.

The first day was emotionally painful and confusing, nonauthentic. On the second day the internal pain was gone. A sense of relaxation and calmness permeated. By the third day I did not need to smile anymore. Instead just maintain the mask. By the fourth day the mental state flowed very naturally and is pervasive. I don't know about this part.

By the second week I can call the mental state of Fe calmness/affection when needed. Fi is very quiet but peeks up now and then. It can be called it on demand or quelled. Te quibbles with Fe. It is marked by a mild increase in anxiety as it surfaces. Ne has become Ni, although I really am uncertain what to do with it.

My hope is this is of value to a few. I think I understand now.

 

[Kalach]

The second step of the procedure is to be completed months after step 1 is begun, for it is the natural extension of so high cost a project.

Step 2: lay demolition charges at every foundation point of the headquarters building. Float along on feelings of goodwill and freedom, smiling at every ENTP you meet knowing deep in your heart that you can and will send them all to hell with just the slightest squeeze of the remote trigger you carry in your pocket. They will smile in return and love you. And then start picking apart your relaxed state. Boom.


Step 3 includes remarriage, possibly from prison.

 

[PoprocksAndCoke]

I think I understand now.

Teehee

 

[Kalach]

An alternative before reaching the Fight Club stage of the project is to realise that you don't actually like ENTPs. They make you feel weak and stupid. They don't intended to, but that's the way it works out because Ti is far more pure a truth seeking function even though it's exhausting and takes like ten times longer than Te, and they're so well versed in it they're not going to accept Te conclusions anyway, and to top it all off, there's the damn thing about how you can't make an emotional connection either because their Fe mostly works in letting them know what they DON'T want and doesn't let them recognise Fi.

I'm started finding it much easier to think of Fe as being like Te. Users seek an acknowledged order in the outside world and they know the difference between this and that action because it makes them feel things! They're directive and assertive and create environments because they really do feel the results of those things. That stuff about smiling to make others smile, that really does feel right to them. And in that realm they have their own quests for authenticity too, for when those smiles are not just real but also true.

They're freaks. You're a freak. Fe users will let you get away with the grimaces for a while because they're too polite to call you on it directly, they don't even know how. It'd be rude.

 

[Thalassa]

The below technique seems to call up Fe, at least for an ENFP.

It may be of most value to those who have Te rage, overwhelming Fi emotional pain and fluctuation, or Fi users who suffer from chronic fatigue, chronic pain or autoimmune disorders.

I am content to think thoughts in my head. I cringe at sharing this.

I suspect Fe users have increased basal cortisol levels relative to Fi users.

1. Relax your face.
2. Release tension (Te for an ENFP)
3. Construct a mask.
a. Make a fake smile. Only your mouth. Only a very slight smile. Too much will be tiring. Intentionally relax the muscles around your eyes. The eyes are very important. Real smiles use the ocular muscles.
b. Fix the mask. Let it gently respond, but only very slightly. Your eyes are free to move. Your mask/eye muscles are not. Don’t move your brow, don’t tense your eye muscles, little movement of the smile.
c. Mentally detach your mind from the mask. Your mind is free to think anything. Your mask must not move in response. It is a barrier.
d. Your thoughts are not your mask.
4. Construct a mental mantra to remind you to not allow the other to see your pain. Even if you scream in emotional agony internally, do not allow the mask to change.
5. Do this for several days. Constant.

The first day was emotionally painful and confusing, nonauthentic. On the second day the internal pain was gone. A sense of relaxation and calmness permeated. By the third day I did not need to smile anymore. Instead just maintain the mask. By the fourth day the mental state flowed very naturally and is pervasive.

By the second week I can call the mental state of Fe calmness/affection when needed. Fi is very quiet but peeks up now and then. It can be called it on demand or quelled. Te quibbles with Fe. It is marked by a mild increase in anxiety as it surfaces. Ne has become Ni, although I really am uncertain what to do with it.

My hope is this is of value to a few.

How in God's name does this help one to develop Fe? It just sounds like what you have to do when you work in customer service, which I already do.

I do not think this helps people to develop Fe.

I think that Fe, for me at least, is genuinely caring enough about other people to change your behavior in a given situation. For example, acting different around old people, or at church. I tend to behave differently around people I know who won't understand my real opinions, and I just behave the way I know they want me to. I do have the ability to change myself to what other people need, and to let it roll off of me. That's just how I was raised.

Sometimes I honestly want to nurture or take care of other people, but I don't think that's necessarily Fe. I think I made a conscious choice to develop my Fi as a teenager because I got sick of being around fakey-nice Southern people who were two-faced and inauthentic. I also saw people who were Fe dominant (or auxillary) get stepped on and used, and it bothered me.

I don't know. I don't think you can develop Fe by making facial expressions, unless this is a joke. I think Fe requires actually caring enough about conforming to standards of behavior to keep the peace.

 

[Billy]

I just see Fe as a form of empathy to the max... One bit of Fe to me on a personal level is crying when I see someone crying even though I don't have a reason to. This happens all the time and it can be embarrassing at times for a male. The major by product of Fe I have found is to be guilt, if I don't react appropriately. The level and amount of guilt depending on the situation may or may not be enough to make me change my course of actions.

 

[Thalassa]

I just see Fe as a form of empathy to the max... One bit of Fe to me on a personal level is crying when I see someone crying even though I don't have a reason to. This happens all the time and it can be embarrassing at times for a male. The major by product of Fe I have found is to be guilt, if I don't react appropriately. The level and amount of guilt depending on the situation may or may not be enough to make me change my course of actions.

I dunno. Fi is empathetic, too. I'm so empathetic that I can't stand to watch anything real where someone is suffering if I can't do something about it to help them. It makes me sick inside. I feel bad for people who are crying and always try to help them. I don't think that simply caring about other people and wanting to help seperates Fe from Fi.

 

[Billy]

I dunno. Fi is empathetic, too. I'm so empathetic that I can't stand to watch anything real where someone is suffering if I can't do something about it to help them. It makes me sick inside. I feel bad for people who are crying and always try to help them. I don't think that simply caring about other people and wanting to help seperates Fe from Fi.

I think by definition Fi is more internal and less external, it weighs a situation against its own set of ideas and values then reacts, for me Fe is more about not coming to my own conclusion but coming to someone elses conclusion inside my own head. Emotionally speaking, making Fe in my opinion empathy in the truest sense.

 

[Thalassa]

I think by definition Fi is more internal and less external, it weighs a situation against its own set of ideas and values then reacts, for me Fe is more about not coming to my own conclusion but coming to someone elses conclusion inside my own head. Emotionally speaking, making Fe in my opinion empathy in the truest sense.

Hmmm. Fe is changing your behavior to meet the needs of others, yes, but it's also expecting other people to conform to community standards. Sometimes people with Fe show no sympathy to people who don't meet those external "standards" of what they consider "proper" or "appropriate" behavior. That isn't empathetic. Fe can be controlling and selfish, and I really have a hard time buying the idea that it's more empathetic than Fi because of my experience with some twisted Fe doms. Fe needs to be needed, and will even push itself on others who don't want it.

Yes, Fe is great and wonderful, and I actually have moderate Fe myself and completely understand why it is both useful and necessary, but I don't think it's this great, noble, uber-empathy function that some people try to idealize it into being.

 

[Billy]

Don't know who is trying to nobel-ize what, but I am just saying that's what it is, that's how I live it. And I have found Fi to be selfish in its own right as well.

 

[Kalach]

Fi sympathy pushes Te decisions forward, and Te being about the outside world, you get decisions about what should be done.

As I understand it, Fe is that but directly so. Where Fi would futz around deciding what is the true nature of the feeling in idiosyncratic detail and then let Te in on the act, Fe is already there.

 

[Thalassa]

Don't know who is trying to nobel-ize what, but I am just saying that's what it is, that's how I live it. And I have found Fi to be selfish in its own right as well.

Oh sure Fi can certainly be selfish, but most people already think that. That's not a point of contention.

It's just that I've noticed several people making the judgement call recently on here that Fe is all about caring about other people, and Fi is all about self. It's really not that simple. It's more about whether your ethical value system has an internal or external checking system. I check Fi against what I know to be right, Fe checks itself against what it thinks the community defines as right. While that can mean Fi could be self-absorbed, Fi can also have the internal value system of wanting to help others. And while it can mean Fe is generous and giving, it can also mean that Fe is leading Nazi Germany or the local abortion clinic bombing.

I just like a balanced perspective of the two functions. I don't think one is "better" than the other.

 

[Billy]

Oh sure Fi can certainly be selfish, but most people already think that. That's not a point of contention.

It's just that I've noticed several people making the judgement call recently on here that Fe is all about caring about other people, and Fi is all about self. It's really not that simple. It's more about whether your ethical value system has an internal or external checking system. I check Fi against what I know to be right, Fe checks itself against what it thinks the community defines as right. While that can mean Fi could be self-absorbed, Fi can also have the internal value system of wanting to help others. And while it can mean Fe is generous and giving, it can also mean that Fe is leading Nazi Germany or the local abortion clinic bombing.

I just like a balanced perspective of the two functions. I don't think one is "better" than the other.

I think thats a narrow view of Fe, I see Fe more as me not being able to have an emotional experience unless I have someone else to go through with it. Making it pretty selfless in that regard. I dont cry when I see a person I dont know crying because I think they aren't acting the way society thinks they should act, I see them crying and I just start rolling and I cant help it. Egged on by Ni I start looking for all the reasons as to why they are crying and try to apply a fix so I can feel peace.

 

[Thalassa]

I think thats a narrow view of Fe, I see Fe more as me not being able to have an emotional experience unless I have someone else to go through with it. Making it pretty selfless in that regard. I dont cry when I see a person I dont know crying because I think they aren't acting the way society thinks they should act, I see them crying and I just start rolling and I cant help it. Egged on by Ni I start looking for all the reasons as to why they are crying and try to apply a fix so I can feel peace.

I'm not defining what your experience is. I'm simply pointing out that Fe isn't necessarily "truly empathetic" and that Fi vs. Fe isn't selfish vs. selfless. I sometimes wonder if people with Fi think they have Fe because they think of themselves as as more "other focused."

 

[sgman]

Are you sure you're not describing an Fi'er who is at peace with the world and himself?

Also, wouldn't keeping things in be more in the realm of introverted feeling, rather than extroverted feeling?