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Thread: Developing Fe

  1. #51
    Senior Member htb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    Anyhoo, one upshot from this as far as the OP is concerned is pretty much no one has any chance of developing Fe if they didn't start out with it. One can work on one's empathy and one's sympathy, but it's probably more sensible to do it in terms of functions one already commands.

    Or is that too limiting?
    No, it's fair; not unlike warning someone to refrain from an activity for which they have little aptitude. Whenever I have, from an observer's perspective, pleased the crowd or said the right thing, it's been a lucky coincidence between the mood and my idiom.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach
    Sure, they can have at you about your comportment and saying Thank you and Please and so on, and about doing the acknowledged right thing at the well-known right time, but I don't think they run so tightly on rails as it seems.
    But there's a certain way to say Please and Thank You; maintained in Western culture by Fe, I assume, with a big smile as a prerequisite. My guess is that Fe users identify the tradition (as part of upbringing) and emulate; while Fi users either try to emulate (waxing Bizarro) or instead reject etiquette and accept social consequences for genuine demeanor.

  2. #52
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    Actually, as an extension of the OP topic (at least in letter if not spirit), what does one do to go about developing Fe? That's to say, not an Fi user trying to mimic it, but an Fe user trying to grow into their appropriate maturity.
    My organization just completed a Reduction in Force (RIF) last Tuesday. This is what I think I noticed between the Fe users (FJs and TPs) and Fi users (TJs and FPs) during this five to six month period of wondering if you would be one of the losing your job.

    Bare with me, I swear I have a point. This is about Fe being aware of the social context, so I'm going to give a snapshot into something that is dripping in social awareness. All I can go by is who seemed sensitive to what and who was willing to speak about this process, how they felt about it and how they came to the conclusions they did. Everyone regardless of how I've typed them were upset by the RIFs. What I'm referring to is how I noticed people responded and the commonalities I noticed between types. I work in a feeling-dominated environment with a close split between FPs and FJs.

    There's a lot of factors involved in a RIF in a medium-sized organization. If this were a large company where a whole division or department would be cut I think it would've felt less intensely personal. Since we have around 200 employees and layoffs were completed in such a way that one or two people from every department were offered up to layoff, the whole process became one of political maneuvering to be a favored employee.

    FJs seemed externally the most sensitive, upset and worried. FJs verbalized what was going on with them which is Fe seeking external confirmation of internal feelings. There were many complaints of physical afflictions, i.e., not sleeping or eating/overeating, worrying, stomach problems, nervousness and anxiety.

    Now I'm going to divide by SFJs and NFJs. SFJs more often voiced practical but very relevant concerns. Such and such just bought a house, just had a baby (they'll lose their health insurance), so and so is sick (health insurance again), why is this happening entering the holiday season, so and so's husband was laid off as well, how am I going to prepare my finances to cope with this, etc.

    I haven't identified as many NFJs at my job, one INFJ, and two women I strongly suspect are ENFJs. What I noticed with them is the railing against the general principle of the whole thing. How were the decisions to lay people off made? How were people singled out? Was it based on favoritism? This process was not objective: I know such and such was protected by a higher up. How does leadership plan on dealing with the workplace morale? To be honest, NFJs seemed much more nihilistic in their appraisals of the situation and made statements such as the "emotional hemorrhaging" of the organization and stronger conclusive statements than SFJs.

    Generally FJs seemed connected to the who and what a bit more.

    FPs to me seemed to be a bit slow on the workplace gossip regarding the RIFs. I've got to say, the gossip grapevine (I'm pretty sure that's a product of Fe) has been unnervingly accurate about who was getting laid off. One thing I noticed was that when the names of those who were RIFed were given, many of the FPs didn't know who the people were, compared to the FJs knowing who people were. My division director (an ENFP) was not at work on the day the RIFs occurred, wasn't here last year when they happened either, so now I wonder if she is so uncomfortable by the whole process that she just doesn't come in to work. She has not made any attempt to have a division meeting (most other division directors have already done this) to discuss what happened. My immediate supervisor, an INFP has not said anything to me regarding the RIFs. If I were dependent upon her to give me any information about the security of my job, I'd be in the dark.

    IxFPs generally expressed reluctance to talk about the whole thing, although they definitely felt the tensions. During this period, I envied their ability to cocoon themselves, they seemed better able to block out the negative noise. This is a good and bad thing I think, because I wanted more reassurance from the FP leadership in my division, but it was not there. I don't know if it had anything to do with type or just general managerial skills. I also noticed a difference between NFPs and SFPs during this; SFPs seemed more willing to talk about how they felt, what they thought, and how the sitatuation was affecting them. I'm sorry to say but it seems to me that NFPs took a mental vacation.

    Thinkers generally seemed more angry. This goes for female thinkers as well. Most of the thinkers that I associate with are ISTs so this is skewed. There was more proactive behavior with the thinkers, i.e. actively looking for a new job. One ENTJ manager (my girlcrush ) said she was fighting to keep everyone in her department. The one older ENTP man I know hasn't mentioned anything, but he's a higher up and I doubt he would be RIFed anyway. The two INTPs didn't seem to know anything.

    The person I am most impressed with during this whole situation is an INTJ division director. I know quite a few people in his division and he let the people he knew were getting RIFed know during the summer. They left on their own terms about about two months ago. The only reason why I know anything about these people is I saw one of them crying when I was walking down the hallway and asked if she was OK and she told me.

    I guess all this is probably a Fe spew, but it also may show how Fe works. I know all this because I'm generally hypersensitive to the atmosphere, almost detrimentally. I'm not saying this to brag or show how "exquisitely sensitive" I am. I feel that this has been more of a hindrance than a help, because I've let the stress of it all affect me. I've noticed that the people who were likely not to be affected by the RIFs had a different air about them than the little peons who would be affected and to me seemed unconcerned. I've learned a lot about who trustworthy people are and those who I should avoid. I've learned who the real leaders are at my organization and the ones who respect their employees enough to do things the right way. I noticed a lot of things but it's too much to write here.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  3. #53
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    I know when you talk over issues with an ENFJ its more along the lines of what you should do, what is expected, etc. Is this a Te/Fe trait?

  4. #54
    Senior Member TopherRed's Avatar
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    *computer voice*
    E-N-F-J
    Fe Voice-Print Access Requested.
    Please Identify.


    "The...Fuzz"

    Voice Print Recognized. Welcome Back Mr. Fuzz.
    *doors open*
    Fe is primary to me, I think I can speak to it's merits and pitfalls without leaving much to the imagination.

    Fe causes its user aggitation if a community in proxy to the user is not in perfect harmony. Any actions or disturbances that would move to dissove community are painful to Fe. Emotions are those things in the Fe arsenal that Fe (if taken alone) uses to create relational harmony in it's surroundings.

    It's not Fe that gets so caught up in how dissonance makes it feel so that immature behavior results--that's the will of the user.

    I believe the most mature use of Fe from a user is when that user stays out of the fray of community dissolution in favor of unconditionally loving the people involved (which is an action, emotion is simply part of it, hardcore Ts are very capible of love); that way, instead of trying to change things from the outside, often causing more problems to the organism of community because of their selfish Fe-aggitation, the Fe user becomes the center of it because he or she put unconditional love ahead of themselves. Only then can Fe truly do what it was meant to do; act as the center of a family, the core of a ministry group, the bond that strengthens and unifies all others, the heartbeat of the community.
    Love is the point.

  5. #55
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzcrossed View Post
    Fe is primary to me, I think I can speak to it's merits and pitfalls without leaving much to the imagination.

    Fe causes its user aggitation if a community in proxy to the user is not in perfect harmony. Any actions or disturbances that would move to dissove community are painful to Fe. Emotions are those things in the Fe arsenal that Fe (if taken alone) uses to create relational harmony in it's surroundings.

    It's not Fe that gets so caught up in how dissonance makes it feel so that immature behavior results--that's the will of the user.

    I believe the most mature use of Fe from a user is when that user stays out of the fray of community dissolution in favor of unconditionally loving the people involved (which is an action, emotion is simply part of it, hardcore Ts are very capible of love); that way, instead of trying to change things from the outside, often causing more problems to the organism of community because of their selfish Fe-aggitation, the Fe user becomes the center of it because he or she put unconditional love ahead of themselves. Only then can Fe truly do what it was meant to do; act as the center of a family, the core of a ministry group, the bond that strengthens and unifies all others, the heartbeat of the community.
    I guess. *shrug* I'm not really into the Jesus Christ Superstar Fe.

    I don't know how "mature" of a Fe user I am, but this seems naive to me. I may have felt like that three or four years ago, but I've changed my tune since then.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  6. #56
    Senior Member TopherRed's Avatar
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    Well, you are four years older Prot. Could you elaborate? How do you now see Fe in contrast to my statement? Maybe it'll help me grow up a little...
    Love is the point.

  7. #57
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzcrossed View Post
    Fe is primary to me, I think I can speak to it's merits and pitfalls without leaving much to the imagination.

    Fe causes its user aggitation if a community in proxy to the user is not in perfect harmony. Any actions or disturbances that would move to dissove community are painful to Fe. Emotions are those things in the Fe arsenal that Fe (if taken alone) uses to create relational harmony in it's surroundings.

    It's not Fe that gets so caught up in how dissonance makes it feel so that immature behavior results--that's the will of the user.

    I believe the most mature use of Fe from a user is when that user stays out of the fray of community dissolution in favor of unconditionally loving the people involved (which is an action, emotion is simply part of it, hardcore Ts are very capible of love); that way, instead of trying to change things from the outside, often causing more problems to the organism of community because of their selfish Fe-aggitation, the Fe user becomes the center of it because he or she put unconditional love ahead of themselves. Only then can Fe truly do what it was meant to do; act as the center of a family, the core of a ministry group, the bond that strengthens and unifies all others, the heartbeat of the community.
    I'm sorry, I didn't mean to imply that you were naive. I rattled my response off too quickly, without sufficient explanation. I don't know if four years makes a big difference...I think I've been in some situations that lowered my dimmer switch, whereas yours may not be and there's nothing wrong with that.

    When you said "mature use of Fe from a user is when that user stays out of the fray of community dissolution" I conjured up ideas of people too paralyzed by fear and uncertainty or so afraid of conflict that they're of no use and don't do the things that need to be done.

    I should've asked you to explain you meant by that because I understood what you said in terms of detaching at the wrong time instead of the right time and being reluctant to be a foot soldier if need be. I see that as the JCS/Messianic Fe, which I don't have that brand of. See how much spin I put on that!

    I'm also not quite sure what you mean when you say "selfish Fe agitation." Actually I think I know what you mean, but I've seen that aspect of Fe work for the best and for the worst. For example an ESFJ at my job skillfully wielded the Fe-hammer on the Chief of Staff's office to get a more comprehensive and modernized maternal leave policy and to update other HR policies as well and they responded by changing things. She was really rallying the troops, she knew how to apply feeling logic very well and was reasonable and sensitive in how she organized her campaign.

    In the other direction, well, there are plenty examples of this floating around here so I can't say I haven't experienced (or done ) any of it.

    Information being passed along the Fe created networks in both ways, so when you said "rise above" I thought the same mechanisms that get beneficial things for the community can of course be just as easily be corrupted. I took issue with the corruption of these networks would disappear if only that unconditional love part was there.

    Sometimes people assume that only Fe users partake and use these networks is definitely not true. I sometimes think of Fe as an emotional interstate highway that everyone uses, but FJs tend do the maintenance and upkeep of because they're more attuned to when a pothole needs to be filled or when a new overpass needs to be built. Some people use them out of convenience and efficiency ("well it's already there") without truly understanding why they're there and the effort that goes into maintaining them.

    Others may not what to take the interstate, so they'll take another route which gets them to the same place. I think one of the things that FJs need to check themselves on is allowing people to take alternate routes. So that part of selfish Fe agitation, yeah I get that.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

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