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Thread: Developing Fe

  1. #41
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    Does this make Fi users extremely subjective?
    About as much as Ti users, probably.


    I think I'm going to revise the ideas a bit, this is all a little bit rushed:

    Fi tells a person what they feel about their inner workings, and becomes a factor in the outer world when it is informed by other functions. The other functions, I guess the perceptions functions, tell the person what's going on outside them. The extraverted perception functions tell the person immediately. The introverted perception functions provide a backlog of understanding that can be drawn on to understand currently. Te provides truths. And all the functions are inter-related, sharing information.

    Fe decides for the person what they feel immediately about the stuff outside them. It is a decision function, called upon immediately by outside events.


    I'm getting lost here, no longer making sense. The core intuition for all of this is that Fe is analogous to Te, it makes decisions about what is right and wrong outside of the person, and it does so by directly affecting the user. It's not so much that they care about what's outside them, it's that the origin of the feeling literally resides in the things that happen outside the person. Just like for Te users the truth of things and processes literally resides in the reality of the things and processes that exist outside the person.


    And the language for both Fi and Fe users is "I feel...", which makes the whole thing confusing to spell out. The trick would be to describe what it means to have the locus of feeling be i and inside the person or e and outside the person.
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  2. #42
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    Anyhoo, one upshot from this as far as the OP is concerned is pretty much no one has any chance of developing Fe if they didn't start out with it. One can work on one's empathy and one's sympathy, but it's probably more sensible to do it in terms of functions one already commands.

    Or is that too limiting?

    I dunno, maybe it seems like a pity that one's appreciation of The Other is always going to be secondhand. Maybe that's just an INTJ speaking.
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

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  3. #43
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    Though I don't doubt that both Fe and Fi users feel deeply, I also don't doubt that Fe-users are more focussed on others *all the time*, whereas we need to actually tune in to do that, or, be overwhelmed/ambushed by others. We also seem to be more focussed on the 'why do they feel this way and how does it come about' whereas Fe-users seem to go ' why do they feel this way and how do I fix it, now!'.

    I think Fi goes deeper in the analysis and during that, we sync up, causing us to feel their pain tremendously. But we need to sync up or, the pain has to be so visible that we cannot ignore it. I'm guessing Fe-users are constantly in tune, but don't go as deeply as we do, because they have so many people at the same time and keep it practical and geared towards the group harmony.
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  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    How in God's name does this help one to develop Fe? It just sounds like what you have to do when you work in customer service, which I already do.

    I do not think this helps people to develop Fe.

    I think that Fe, for me at least, is genuinely caring enough about other people to change your behavior in a given situation. For example, acting different around old people, or at church. I tend to behave differently around people I know who won't understand my real opinions, and I just behave the way I know they want me to. I do have the ability to change myself to what other people need, and to let it roll off of me. That's just how I was raised.

    Sometimes I honestly want to nurture or take care of other people, but I don't think that's necessarily Fe. I think I made a conscious choice to develop my Fi as a teenager because I got sick of being around fakey-nice Southern people who were two-faced and inauthentic. I also saw people who were Fe dominant (or auxillary) get stepped on and used, and it bothered me.

    I don't know. I don't think you can develop Fe by making facial expressions, unless this is a joke. I think Fe requires actually caring enough about conforming to standards of behavior to keep the peace.
    I think conforming to Fe is about putting aside how you feel. Can you empathize about things that you dont really care about or that have no value to you? One way to turn sympathy into empathy is to see how you would feel in that situation, but that is not true empathy in my opinion because if you dont feel the same you have to find something other than Fi or your values and what you care about.

  5. #45
    Nickle Iron Silicone Charmed Justice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by poki View Post
    I think conforming to Fe is about putting aside how you feel. Can you empathize about things that you dont really care about or that have no value to you? One way to turn sympathy into empathy is to see how you would feel in that situation, but that is not true empathy in my opinion because if you dont feel the same you have to find something other than Fi or your values and what you care about.
    See, now I'm starting to get confused. In general, empaths tend to care about those things not necessarily relevant to them. In that way, we frequently get caught up in the problems of others. I don't see how this is unique to Fe though. It just seems inherent to the NF temperament in general. Sympathy is something that I actually have to muster, but my empathizing is very much instinctual. I can relate to Billy when he says he has to occasionally pull away from people because he feels too much of them. I'm having an identity crisis!
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    Quote Originally Posted by EnFpFer View Post
    See, now I'm starting to get confused. In general, empaths tend to care about those things not necessarily relevant to them. In that way, we frequently get caught up in the problems of others. I don't see how this is unique to Fe though. It just seems inherent to the NF temperament in general. Sympathy is something that I actually have to muster, but my empathizing is very much instinctual. I can relate to Billy when he says he has to occasionally pull away from people because he feels too much of them. I'm having an identity crisis!
    Do you feel without understanding why? I think to be a nurturer you must be able to care without understanding. To be sympathetic and feel the same as the person. That is how you care. I can be 100% empathetic with or without feeling anything inside.

    edit: I may also be mixing T and F though in this. Also Fi is my 8th function.

    So what if its a combination of Fe and Fi

  7. #47
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    In what cases would empathy fail as empathy is not a wholly grail above sympathy? If you couldnt understand because the person didnt wish to explain or provide an understanding does empathy fail where as sympathy would not?

    How does this match to Fi vs Fe people?

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    Quote Originally Posted by poki View Post
    I think conforming to Fe is about putting aside how you feel. Can you empathize about things that you dont really care about or that have no value to you? One way to turn sympathy into empathy is to see how you would feel in that situation, but that is not true empathy in my opinion because if you dont feel the same you have to find something other than Fi or your values and what you care about.
    I've seen Fe users, though, THINK they know what other people need, or think they are reading other people's minds and be...wrong. Annoyingly wrong, like some I've known are occasionally smug about it, like "I know exactly what you (or their husband, or their whatever) need" and they're just...wrong. They actually put a little too much faith into believing they know what other people need. It's not that they don't sometimes, but it's not as empathetic as some of them claim. Like Fe users take personal pride in thinking they're superior at caring for others, when they may just be intruding upon, annoying, or even second guessing people. That isn't true empathy, either. Fe can be a bull-dozer of "I need you to need me~!!! And I want to be RIGHT about what you need!!!"

    I would never argue that Fe isn't more focused on other people. But, like, it's not an un-selfish focus 100% of the time like some Fe people maybe genuinely have convinced themselves that it is.

    Fe can also admonish people for stupid shit, like "Why are you outside in your night gown? What will the neighbor's think?" That's not empathy - it's social conformity.

    I'm not arguing that Fe can't be wonderfully empathetic and other-focused. It's just not THAT empathetic or other focused. When it comes down to it, Fe - like any other function - is still inside of a person with subjective ideas contingent upon the experience of the self.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by EnFpFer View Post
    See, now I'm starting to get confused. In general, empaths tend to care about those things not necessarily relevant to them. In that way, we frequently get caught up in the problems of others. I don't see how this is unique to Fe though. It just seems inherent to the NF temperament in general. Sympathy is something that I actually have to muster, but my empathizing is very much instinctual. I can relate to Billy when he says he has to occasionally pull away from people because he feels too much of them. I'm having an identity crisis!
    Also just thinking out loud, maybe this is you reverting to you having to move to your inner FiSi and against your normal NeTe external mode. Changing internally instead of externally? Do your values change when you muster this up?

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    I've seen Fe users, though, THINK they know what other people need, or think they are reading other people's minds and be...wrong. Annoyingly wrong, like some I've known are occasionally smug about it, like "I know exactly what you (or their husband, or their whatever) need" and they're just...wrong. They actually put a little too much faith into believing they know what other people need. It's not that they don't sometimes, but it's not as empathetic as some of them claim. Like Fe users take personal pride in thinking they're superior at caring for others, when they may just be intruding upon, annoying, or even second guessing people. That isn't true empathy, either. Fe can be a bull-dozer of "I need you to need me~!!! And I want to be RIGHT about what you need!!!"
    Well yeah. If there's anything to learn from the discussions here at TypeC, it's that Fe recognises Fe and Fi recognises Fi. I for example have an INFJ friend who is constantly warning me about ENFPs, and she was shocked and amazed at the idea of an ESFP, saying no one like that can be trusted because they're always so fake!.

    But I assume one can learn to appreciate how the other side works. I wonder if it must always be an intellectual recognition, however.


    Actually, as an extension of the OP topic (at least in letter if not spirit), what does one do to go about developing Fe? That's to say, not an Fi user trying to mimic it, but an Fe user trying to grow into their appropriate maturity.

    See, knowing one or two ENFJs, it's struck me as odd the idea that Fe is social graces. Sure, they can have at you about your comportment and saying Thank you and Please and so on, and about doing the acknowledged right thing at the well-known right time, but I don't think they run so tightly on rails as it seems. They are in the system, remaking it, developing it, one assumes. And that's developing one's Fe?
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

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