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Thread: Developing Fe

  1. #21
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    I'm not defining what your experience is. I'm simply pointing out that Fe isn't necessarily "truly empathetic" and that Fi vs. Fe isn't selfish vs. selfless. I sometimes wonder if people with Fi think they have Fe because they think of themselves as as more "other focused."
    I'm gonna go with "Fe is empathetic, frequently truly so". I'm taking it for granted that people with Fe actually do have feelings. Thus, one must ask, feelings about what? Why, feelings DIRECTLY about stuff "out there". No intermediate step. Technically, they don't need the "if that were me" step. Instead they get the feelings directly from what happens out there.

    And before any Fi user jumps up and says we do that too, we don't. Our locus of feeling is inside. Their locus is outside. Our order and harmony is inside. Theirs is outside. They're not satisfied because they contributed to a harmonious environment, instead a harmonious environment is happy.

    It's a fine technical point to make, and the language easily obscures it, but there it is. Fe users recognise actual feeling value inhering immediately in outside acts--body language, choice of expression, and so on--where Fi users recognise feeling flowing from outside acts. They are all together, we are all separate. They act to harmonise environments, we act to harmonise ourselves.

    And yes, everyone can use the same language to describe what they do. And they're still describing different things.

    Focus, people. Focus.



    It is presumably only difficult to understand because it amounts to the seemingly preposterous claim that Fe encompasses the whole world, whereas Fi lays claim only to you.

    But it does allow us to say that Fe users are able to make decisions about right and wrong above and beyond the social graces. They are able to bring their own judgment to what is and isn't good community.
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

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  2. #22
    Crazy Diamond Billy's Avatar
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    Kalach good points, I was trying to describe something similar I think. For me my feelings tend to need an outside factor to work for me. My primary mode of being is rather cool and emotionless, but quickly gets emotional when I am around other people, and not because of me feeling something about them, but that their feelings get into me and change my mood. I don't see someone hurt and say hmm they're hurt, this makes me feel sad. Its more like, "oh my god why is that person hurting? While just feeling what I see them feeling. Which is the hurt, which can be alarming for me because I can be fine 1 second, see someone in an emotional state and immediately connect to that state and become that state without knowing why. It sneaks up on me without me being able to explain why. Its actually quite tiresome after a while and its one of the predominant reasons I tend to seek solitude, Its exhausting to go through a gambit of emotions that I shouldn't be feeling because they have nothing to do with me, but are just reflections of the people around me. I do have internal feelings of my own, but they're much weaker and much smaller then my Fe based feelings. I can definitely feel a difference in them.

  3. #23
    Nickle Iron Silicone Charmed Justice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy View Post
    Kalach good points, I was trying to describe something similar I think. For me my feelings tend to need an outside factor to work for me. My primary mode of being is rather cool and emotionless, but quickly gets emotional when I am around other people, and not because of me feeling something about them, but that their feelings get into me and change my mood. I don't see someone hurt and say hmm they're hurt, this makes me feel sad. Its more like, "oh my god why is that person hurting? While just feeling what I see them feeling. Which is the hurt, which can be alarming for me because I can be fine 1 second, see someone in an emotional state and immediately connect to that state and become that state without knowing why. It sneaks up on me without me being able to explain why. Its actually quite tiresome after a while and its one of the predominant reasons I tend to seek solitude, Its exhausting to go through a gambit of emotions that I shouldn't be feeling because they have nothing to do with me, but are just reflections of the people around me. I do have internal feelings of my own, but they're much weaker and much smaller then my Fe based feelings. I can definitely feel a difference in them.
    The bolded is exactly how I am, and I am surely no INFJ. I thought that just had to do with having a high EQ, not necessary Fe versus Fi.
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  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by EnFpFer View Post
    The bolded is exactly how I am, and I am surely no INFJ. I thought that just had to do with having a high EQ, not necessary Fe versus Fi.
    What I'm wondering is does Billy actually imagine that Fi users look at hurting people and think, "Hmm that person is hurting, that makes me feel sad."

    I also relate to going through other people's emotions and feeling exhausted from it. I relate to starting to cry a little when someone else is sad and not knowing exactly why.

    I also "mirror" people and shift myself to the point of even mimicking the speech patterns of others. When my sister was having a miscarriage, I was the only person of me, my mother, and my other sister who understood that she just wanted us to be quiet, while my mom and sister were actually being noisy and selfish running around trying to "help" and just stressing her out more in her time of pain.

    I'm not sure how much of this would be Fe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    I'm gonna go with "Fe is empathetic, frequently truly so". I'm taking it for granted that people with Fe actually do have feelings. Thus, one must ask, feelings about what? Why, feelings DIRECTLY about stuff "out there". No intermediate step. Technically, they don't need the "if that were me" step. Instead they get the feelings directly from what happens out there.

    And before any Fi user jumps up and says we do that too, we don't. Our locus of feeling is inside. Their locus is outside. Our order and harmony is inside. Theirs is outside. They're not satisfied because they contributed to a harmonious environment, instead a harmonious environment is happy.

    It's a fine technical point to make, and the language easily obscures it, but there it is. Fe users recognise actual feeling value inhering immediately in outside acts--body language, choice of expression, and so on--where Fi users recognise feeling flowing from outside acts. They are all together, we are all separate. They act to harmonise environments, we act to harmonise ourselves.

    And yes, everyone can use the same language to describe what they do. And they're still describing different things.

    Focus, people. Focus.



    It is presumably only difficult to understand because it amounts to the seemingly preposterous claim that Fe encompasses the whole world, whereas Fi lays claim only to you.

    But it does allow us to say that Fe users are able to make decisions about right and wrong above and beyond the social graces. They are able to bring their own judgment to what is and isn't good community.
    Your Fi is tertiary, therefore it's experienced a bit differently than people with primary or auxillary Fi.

    Just like my tertiary Si is nothing like an SJ would experience it.

  6. #26
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    But mah Ni is dominatorical so I can do theory gooder.

    And y'all are forgetting that whatever the F is doing, the T, the N and the S are doing stuff too. So, pure Fi doesn't give one rat's ass about other people, but no person has pure Fi, they have it in conjunction with other functions, both perceiving and judgment. So, an ENFP will get flooded by other people's feelings (if they recognise them) via Ne because that's what Ne does when it's attuned to F, and the same for an INFP, and SPs get it via Se+Ni, and so on and on.

    But the FJs and the TPs get it mainlined, straight in through a judgment function, Fe. Their judgment tells them, stabbing their hearts directly, uninterpreted, what is right and wrong in the landscape.

    I suppose, anyway.
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  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    But mah Ni is dominatorical so I can do theory gooder.

    And y'all are forgetting that whatever the F is doing, the T, the N and the S are doing stuff too. So, pure Fi doesn't give one rat's ass about other people, but no person has pure Fi, they have it in conjunction with other functions, both perceiving and judgment. So, an ENFP will get flooded by other people's feelings (if they recognise them) via Ne because that's what Ne does when it's attuned to F, and the same for an INFP, and SPs get it via Se+Ni, and so on and on.

    But the FJs and the TPs get it mainlined, straight in through a judgment function, Fe. Their judgment tells them, stabbing their hearts directly, uninterpreted, what is right and wrong in the landscape.

    I suppose, anyway.

    I think it's possible that Fs actually get this mainlined, and Ts are just able to filter it out better, whether they have Fi or Fe. That's why you think Fi needs Te to even do something for other people, and why an ENTP might think that Fe only serves a "means to an ends" purpose to pacify other people to shut up.

  8. #28
    Crazy Diamond Billy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    But mah Ni is dominatorical so I can do theory gooder.

    And y'all are forgetting that whatever the F is doing, the T, the N and the S are doing stuff too. So, pure Fi doesn't give one rat's ass about other people, but no person has pure Fi, they have it in conjunction with other functions, both perceiving and judgment. So, an ENFP will get flooded by other people's feelings (if they recognise them) via Ne because that's what Ne does when it's attuned to F, and the same for an INFP, and SPs get it via Se+Ni, and so on and on.

    But the FJs and the TPs get it mainlined, straight in through a judgment function, Fe. Their judgment tells them, stabbing their hearts directly, uninterpreted, what is right and wrong in theod landscape.

    I suppose, anyway.
    Good points again, sort of like how someone who uses Ni, Fe, and Ti can make a pseudo Te.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy View Post
    Good points again, sort of like how someone who uses Ni, Fe, and Ti can make a pseudo Te.
    Or how someone with Ni Te Fi can make pseudo Fe.

  10. #30
    Crazy Diamond Billy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    Or how someone with Ni Te Fi can make pseudo Fe.
    Yes.

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