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  1. #41
    Aspiring Troens Ridder KLessard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerbah View Post
    I was in a romantic relationship once with an NF who idealised me. No one had ever done that to me before and it felt delicious at the time but I'm sorry, I disagree that it was a “great honour”. His idealisation of me was completely selfish. My alarm bells were ringing from the beginning but I ignored them because the emotions in the present moment felt so good. He wanted to marry me straight away but thank goodness I didn't let him sweep me up that far. I think part of the problem may have been I did not idealise him and called him on inappropriate behaviour and he couldn't handle the responsibility of treating me with proper respect, I think because it made him feel too bad about himself – all of which was exaggerated to high drama in his mind. He broke up with me after playing havoc with my emotions. He even had the nerve to discuss his whole “does the perfect partner exist? Maybe not, etc.” with me. He used me and wasted my time and energy as well as hurting me a lot because I let him hook my emotions. It was no honour.

    I understand that you just want to explain the NF point of view and point out a certain fault in it but please do not tell yourself and other NFs and the people who've been idealised by NFs that it isn't so bad because the NF saw something wonderful in you. That is the opposite of love, that is self-contained self-gratification. The idealised person is turned into an object to be consumed. And the good I have in me, I let him have but he didn't deserve it.

    I'm not saying you are as extreme as the NF I was in a relationship with. But it can go that far if the NF is very unhealthy and as a general warning to everyone, I want to say that it's something to be very wary of if you feel it might be happening to you.
    I'm sorry about what happened there. I also think it was awful of that NF to have the "there's no perfect partner" talk with you.

    In my case, the idealisation is never romantic, the role models are generally artistic collaborators or friends, and I sure hope I have never hurt any of them in that way. I am aware that I might have puzzled some of them in the process, though. Then again, forgive me. I want to change.
    By the way, I see romantic relationships as such a high responsibility, and something too serious and close to the floor to deal with it in idealistic terms.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little Linguist View Post
    Hey, type is just one thing in a million....The human psyche is so complex that we couldn't hope to encapsulate it in a single methodology or analytical framework.

    By the way, I can relate very much to loving ideals more than people.
    Yeah.. you are wise about that then.. this does not define me.. it only sheds some light ...

    I see people become their types.. instead of seeing how their type is just a Guideline to how understand themselves..not a user manual on how to behave

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by KLessard View Post
    I am always surprised to see how atheists view christians' repentance and readiness to see their own sin as a "dark thread." (Or perhaps this is not what you see as dark...? What do you mean by very dark?)
    Repentance and change are beautiful and very luminous things in my perspective. This thread is full of light and hope for me.
    Hard to describe exactly, but the thread has very gloomy feeling right from the beginning. It's something that I don't remember countering many times before. Different than the normal depressed posts. Most of the opening post makes me feel sorry for you, not knowing exactly why. It certainly doesn't come through as luminous.

    It may be only because of the choice of words. The religious language might have that effect on me. Maybe if we were talking about feeling guilty, not repentance, and weakness instead of sin, it might seem more hopeful (but don't change your vocabulary because of me ). I'm not atheist by the way, not that I am religious either.

  4. #44
    Striving for balance Little Linguist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by No Exit View Post
    Yeah.. you are wise about that then.. this does not define me.. it only sheds some light ...

    I see people become their types.. instead of seeing how their type is just a Guideline to how understand themselves..not a user manual on how to behave
    Yes, like RAWRRRRRRRRRRRRRR....I cannot show feeling or emotion now!!! I have an excuse for being an anti-social dingbat!!!!! YAYYYYYY! (Oh, wait, that was an emotion...I mean....Good to be made aware of that concept. *ahem*)

    Or GAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHH...I am emotional by nature, so I can be an emotional basket case, rely on others for my value and self-worth, and be generally a bastid....WHEWWW, I'm really not Narcissistic...it's my TYPE!

    LOL Damn....

    It's all about getting to know your weaknesses and improving them while maximizing strengths.
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  5. #45
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Hmm...I don't know that I do this. I think I tend to love people more when I see an 'imperfection'. But then I tend to view myself as a bundle of contradictions, and sometimes have a hard time understanding how someone could love/embrace all aspects of me (inevitably every person would find one or another aspect distasteful), but because I desire that, it seems hypocritical for me to cast someone else off for a less admirable trait. I sometimes think I go in the opposite direction...once I really come to love/admire/respect someone, it takes a helluva lot for me to lose that feeling (sometimes to my detriment).

    It probably helps that I've never been one who has sought out role models, though - I can't say I've ever had one person I esteem more than another - I like different aspects of different people, the notion of 'perfection' is nonexistent (but, tangent, I think we each, as individuals, can achieve our best version of ourselves, and I think we seek out relationships/friendships/loves that become 'perfection' to us, in our subjective sense, weaknesses and all). I guess I don't really relate to turning people into an Ideal? (??) I've always viewed them as people.
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

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  6. #46
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    I don't know how old you are, but you may grow out of it with life experience. I did to some degree.

  7. #47
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KLessard View Post
    I aspire to holiness and goodness and always seeking to better myself so I can be truly helpful and truthful in my work and relationships.
    I have not read the whole thread, but this just screams out to me that this is all about you, you seeing what you want to become in other people, then idealizing that person. It is, simply, all about you. Once you accept yourself, warts and all, you won't have such a determined need to put others on a pedestal of perfection. The feelings to improve yourself will still be there, but not the fiction. You must look within for this growth.

    Quote Originally Posted by KLessard View Post
    When I meet people who appear to have reached a certain level of holiness or simplicity, or humility that I clearly haven't reached, I become VERY admirative and respectful of them. I want to learn from them and will try to spend as much time as I can watching them and speaking with them.
    No, you want to secretly be them, perhaps even envy them to a degree. Then, when they prove to be human after all, you can use this to justify your own lack of perfection by being disappointed in someone or something else and projecting your feelings about your own shortcomings on to them.

    Seriously.

    I don't say this to be mean or anything, it's just that idealism is a mirror we hold to both our own face and the world and we try to see ourselves as perfect by what the world reflects back to us. So when other people are less than perfect we simultaneously get the thrill of their imperfection as an ego boost to ourselves and feel the downward hopelessness that nothing, nothing at all is truly "perfect" nor will it ever be. Very bittersweet. Not empowering.

    Perhaps this vein has already been punctured in thread; forgive me for not wanting to read through all 5 pages to discover if it has. (Ah I'll likely peruse it now to see ) But think about what I have said at least.

    Sending you because really, on this topic it is both positive and negative at play. Still be you, be idealistic, but balance with a healthy dose of realism. Don't just live in a world of fantasy thoughts on other people and "their" perfection (or lack thereof.)

  8. #48
    Aspiring Troens Ridder KLessard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    I have not read the whole thread, but this just screams out to me that this is all about you, you seeing what you want to become in other people, then idealizing that person. It is, simply, all about you. Once you accept yourself, warts and all, you won't have such a determined need to put others on a pedestal of perfection. The feelings to improve yourself will still be there, but not the fiction. You must look within for this growth.



    No, you want to secretly be them, perhaps even envy them to a degree. Then, when they prove to be human after all, you can use this to justify your own lack of perfection by being disappointed in someone or something else and projecting your feelings about your own shortcomings on to them.

    Seriously.

    I don't say this to be mean or anything, it's just that idealism is a mirror we hold to both our own face and the world and we try to see ourselves as perfect by what the world reflects back to us. So when other people are less than perfect we simultaneously get the thrill of their imperfection as an ego boost to ourselves and feel the downward hopelessness that nothing, nothing at all is truly "perfect" nor will it ever be. Very bittersweet. Not empowering.

    Perhaps this vein has already been punctured in thread; forgive me for not wanting to read through all 5 pages to discover if it has. (Ah I'll likely peruse it now to see ) But think about what I have said at least.

    Sending you because really, on this topic it is both positive and negative at play. Still be you, be idealistic, but balance with a healthy dose of realism. Don't just live in a world of fantasy thoughts on other people and "their" perfection (or lack thereof.)

    I find this to be more hurtful than helpful. :sad:

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by KLessard View Post
    I find this to be more hurtful than helpful. :sad:
    Why? I really think she made some good points, and her intention was obviously to help you with this issue.

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    I would like to add, that in my experience, one of the ways that I overcame these issues in my own life was by accepting myself - by accepting my own flaws and "dark side." It really does help. Once you can see yourself realistically and be able to love and forgive yourself for being flawed, it's much easier to love others realistically with their strengths and weaknesses. It takes time though, and yeah, it's not easy. It might hurt a little but that's growth.

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