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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    It would seem logical.


    Yes, it would. But people do not act as though they need each other, and most of them do not believe it. They are expected to be self-sufficient, generally.



    Perhaps people who offer things to fill the void in the absence of people? Manufacturers?
    Yeah .. You are getting close..
    Untied people are powerful people... Love can inspire end enlighten.. Inspired and enlightened people are powerful people.. Enlightenment brings awareness, and most importantly..courage and positive self esteem..

  2. #32
    Senior Member The Outsider's Avatar
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    I forgive you.

  3. #33
    Aspiring Troens Ridder KLessard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nolla View Post
    This is beautifully said. To me it is a glimpse of light in what seems like a very dark thread.

    I don't think I idealize people that much anymore. I might even say I don't expect much of the average person. And when I see a good deed, it is that more "miraculous".



    Yes. I would like to repeat, with bold letters: You can't fix people! You can, however, attempt to fix yourself. The further you get in that mission, the more you see people following the example you are setting. You don't even consciously have to send them any signals, just be the better person.

    One thing I would like to add, about the believers and the non-believers. They both have this trap they fall into. Thinking that they are superior for their world-view. So, believers, it might be possible that there are good atheists around. And non-believers, it is likely that there are many believers just as rational as you are.

    By the way that was not meant as an assault against anyone. It is just a big big big thing that keeps people from truly becoming humble and loving.

    I am always surprised to see how atheists view christians' repentance and readiness to see their own sin as a "dark thread." (Or perhaps this is not what you see as dark...? What do you mean by very dark?)
    Repentance and change are beautiful and very luminous things in my perspective. This thread is full of light and hope for me.

    Another thing in connection to Winged's idea:
    When I start to accept people as they are, I see ideals in them I hadn't noticed before (especially if they are a different type - non-NFs)! For example, I was very hurt by an ISFJ role model lately, but God gave me grace to get over it and to forgive. I started to see how beautiful her loyalty to her family and folk was and how noble her helpmate qualities were. Those were not really the qualities I had seen in her at first.

  4. #34
    Aspiring Troens Ridder KLessard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Outsider View Post
    I forgive you.

  5. #35
    Senior Member Gerbah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KLessard View Post
    If any of you have ever been loved and admired by an NF in this idealistic way, this is great honour. The Idealist is seeing something wonderful and universal in you.
    I was in a romantic relationship once with an NF who idealised me. No one had ever done that to me before and it felt delicious at the time but I'm sorry, I disagree that it was a “great honour”. His idealisation of me was completely selfish. My alarm bells were ringing from the beginning but I ignored them because the emotions in the present moment felt so good. He wanted to marry me straight away but thank goodness I didn't let him sweep me up that far. I think part of the problem may have been I did not idealise him and called him on inappropriate behaviour and he couldn't handle the responsibility of treating me with proper respect, I think because it made him feel too bad about himself – all of which was exaggerated to high drama in his mind. He broke up with me after playing havoc with my emotions. He even had the nerve to discuss his whole “does the perfect partner exist? Maybe not, etc.” with me. He used me and wasted my time and energy as well as hurting me a lot because I let him hook my emotions. It was no honour.

    I understand that you just want to explain the NF point of view and point out a certain fault in it but please do not tell yourself and other NFs and the people who've been idealised by NFs that it isn't so bad because the NF saw something wonderful in you. That is the opposite of love, that is self-contained self-gratification. The idealised person is turned into an object to be consumed. And the good I have in me, I let him have but he didn't deserve it.

    I'm not saying you are as extreme as the NF I was in a relationship with. But it can go that far if the NF is very unhealthy and as a general warning to everyone, I want to say that it's something to be very wary of if you feel it might be happening to you.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerbah View Post
    I was in a romantic relationship once with an NF who idealised me. No one had ever done that to me before and it felt delicious at the time but I'm sorry, I disagree that it was a “great honour”. His idealisation of me was completely selfish. My alarm bells were ringing from the beginning but I ignored them because the emotions in the present moment felt so good. He wanted to marry me straight away but thank goodness I didn't let him sweep me up that far. I think part of the problem may have been I did not idealise him and called him on inappropriate behaviour and he couldn't handle the responsibility of treating me with proper respect, I think because it made him feel too bad about himself – all of which was exaggerated to high drama in his mind. He broke up with me after playing havoc with my emotions. He even had the nerve to discuss his whole “does the perfect partner exist? Maybe not, etc.” with me. He used me and wasted my time and energy as well as hurting me a lot because I let him hook my emotions. It was no honour.

    I understand that you just want to explain the NF point of view and point out a certain fault in it but please do not tell yourself and other NFs and the people who've been idealised by NFs that it isn't so bad because the NF saw something wonderful in you. That is the opposite of love, that is self-contained self-gratification. The idealised person is turned into an object to be consumed. And the good I have in me, I let him have but he didn't deserve it.

    I'm not saying you are as extreme as the NF I was in a relationship with. But it can go that far if the NF is very unhealthy and as a general warning to everyone, I want to say that it's something to be very wary of if you feel it might be happening to you.
    OMG this post especially the RED.. i could have written it myself..

  7. #37
    Junior Member camille's Avatar
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    I find it easier to communicate with people once I have seen their weaknesses or sides of them I wouldn't normally see.

    Most everyone tries to show their best side all the time. And when someone slips, you can almost see the wave of emotions. First the adrenaline, then the doubt, then the defensiveness, then the embarrassment, then the regret or guilt or whatever follows.

    Idealizing people is like developing crushes on them, it lures you in...whether it be an author, speaker, friend, lover, mentor. When you first realize they do slip up, it's a let down. But that's a good thing. It's a reality check which prevents you from getting too far into fantasy and allows the relationship to stabilize.

    I need stability, or grounding. I think the more my views have changed on people and what kind of relationships I want with them, the less I have idealized them or what they do. Since I seek out more intense relationships, I need to feel a range of emotions when with them.
    It is easy to be beautiful; it is difficult to appear so...Frank O'Hara

  8. #38
    Striving for balance Little Linguist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by No Exit View Post
    I am not sure.. I have been through a roller coaster of emotions the past 2 years, a lot of my pillars of identity have crumbled..(my own doing) and I am lost to who I really I am..

    When I first took MBTI.. I scored INTJ... then INTP.. eventually to ISFP and now lately INFP.. I went from type 9 to type 6 to type 4 .. I hope I am being more honest with myself.. It's very obvious I haven't been me for a long time.. I was living very much a shadow of myself..
    You sound like me from ages 18-24. Wow. With the exception of ISFP. I leapt from INTJ-INTP-INFJ-INFP-ENFP-ENFJ.

    I guess that can happen...And I know what you mean by living a shadow of yourself.
    If you are interested in language, words, linguistics, or foreign languages, check out my blog and read, post, and/or share.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little Linguist View Post
    You sound like me from ages 18-24. Wow. With the exception of ISFP. I leapt from INTJ-INTP-INFJ-INFP-ENFP-ENFJ.

    I guess that can happen...And I know what you mean by living a shadow of yourself.
    Yeah the joke is.. I am 40..

    But as the fog clears I will have a better understanding of things

  10. #40
    Striving for balance Little Linguist's Avatar
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    Hey, type is just one thing in a million....The human psyche is so complex that we couldn't hope to encapsulate it in a single methodology or analytical framework.

    By the way, I can relate very much to loving ideals more than people.
    If you are interested in language, words, linguistics, or foreign languages, check out my blog and read, post, and/or share.

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