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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy View Post
    Why does everyone defend "nice" guys when people start speaking truth about them? Hey a nice guy isnt just a guy who is nice, its a guy who is coming in under the pretext of being your friend and lying to your face all the while trying to convince you to love him. Its PATHETIC. Any woman who would willingly date a guy like that should have her head checked.
    Oh? I guess I really am mistaken about the definition then. I would have another term for a guy you're describing and that wouldn't be nice at all. Silly me for thinking that nice guys actually are...nice.

  2. #32
    Member nzAShadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    That is a tough one. In the depth of depression his thinking might be stuck. I agree that the most tangible approach might be a good first step - to actually see other girls. If he doesn't want to go out, then inviting people over for a movie or something that is not socially demanding, but still interactive might be a good start.
    One difficulty with this is that he lives 2 hours away, and coming to town he really has limited options of where he can hang around. The main place where we have our social gatherings also happens to be the place this whole thing started.

    Though still, he's generally fine when he comes to hang out, it's when the girl comes, then there's a chance that he'll withdraw back in his head, or he'll actually interact with her. The problem with that though is that if she's there, the rebound guy will eventually show up, and this usually triggers him back into the Ni depression instantly.

  3. #33
    Listening Oaky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy View Post
    Why does everyone defend "nice" guys when people start speaking truth about them? Hey a nice guy isnt just a guy who is nice, its a guy who is coming in under the pretext of being your friend and lying to your face all the while trying to convince you to love him. Its PATHETIC. Any woman who would willingly date a guy like that should have her head checked.
    Sorry Billy, you've been disqualified of the title of an INFJ.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy View Post
    Why does everyone defend "nice" guys when people start speaking truth about them? Hey a nice guy isnt just a guy who is nice, its a guy who is coming in under the pretext of being your friend and lying to your face all the while trying to convince you to love him. Its PATHETIC. Any woman who would willingly date a guy like that should have her head checked.
    Why would someone defend what you describe? They wouldn't. They don't share your definition.

    Those aren't the only two options, right? Guys who pretend to be nice and guys who are demonstrably not nice, but better because they aren't pretending?

    I think it is entirely possible that the guy in the OP is actually a nice guy.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  5. #35
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Ask him (that is...make him ask himself) what he likes about this girl.

  6. #36
    Member nzAShadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    Why would someone defend what you describe? They wouldn't. They don't share your definition.

    Those aren't the only two options, right? Guys who pretend to be nice and guys who are demonstrably not nice, but better because they aren't pretending?

    I think it is entirely possible that the guy in the OP is actually a nice guy.
    Correct, he doesn't fit Billy's description of a nice guy, he told her he did have the feelings, he would date her, but he felt they would be rushing it, so the girl went to the guy that would sleep with her right away.

  7. #37
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy View Post
    Why does everyone defend "nice" guys when people start speaking truth about them? Hey a nice guy isnt just a guy who is nice, its a guy who is coming in under the pretext of being your friend and lying to your face all the while trying to convince you to love him. Its PATHETIC. Any woman who would willingly date a guy like that should have her head checked.
    That's kind of an ironic term for it, then.

    I always assumed that term was about bashing guys for having a nice, considerate personality instead of being tough, assertive jerks.

    So the term "nice guy" refers to a guy who is dishonest about his intentions?

  8. #38
    Member nzAShadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    That's kind of an ironic term for it, then.

    I always assumed that term was about bashing guys for having a nice, considerate personality instead of being tough, assertive jerks.

    So the term "nice guy" refers to a guy who is dishonest about his intentions?
    I don't think he was specific, he just described someone who could be labeled a nice guy from the observers point of view.

    This description also falls into the category of orbiters, the friend's that secretly want to have sex with the girl.

    Billy's earlier description did have merit, low self respect is also a common trait in the nice guy population, and also the reason why the girl won't go for those particular nice guys.

    Also the guy in the OP fits this description, he does tend to have a low self respect, as in, he won't reach out for what he wants, lacking the confidence in himself that he would succeed in obtaining the goal.

  9. #39
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nzAShadow View Post
    I don't think he was specific, he just described someone who could be labeled a nice guy from the observers point of view.

    This description also falls into the category of orbiters, the friend's that secretly want to have sex with the girl.

    Billy's earlier description did have merit, low self respect is also a common trait in the nice guy population, and also the reason why the girl won't go for those particular nice guys.

    Also the guy in the OP fits this description, he does tend to have a low self respect, as in, he won't reach out for what he wants, lacking the confidence in himself that he would succeed in obtaining the goal.
    There certainly are all types of people including people who fake a front to get what they want.

    One reason people push back against dismissing nice guys as only manipulative is that it can be convenient for a person who chooses to behave as a jerk to both justify/rationalize that behavior while at the same time assuming a superior position to people who seem nice. It is a classic strawman argument. You disintegrate the opposing opinion/option into something everyone has to dismiss. That viewpoint crumbles with the existence of actually kindhearted guys. Then the bar is set higher and being a jerk doesn't mean you are honest. It means you are a jerk.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  10. #40
    Member nzAShadow's Avatar
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    Agreed. However the problem remains that more girls will fall for the jerk front than they will for the kindhearted guys. This in itself will be enough for them to remain a jerk, since it simply has a higher success rate.

    Since this is the case, they will probably continue to justify their behavior with the same logic, even if their argument has crumbled with the existence of real nice guys. Being kindhearted is also misunderstood as simply being a doormat, perhaps under the same train of thought that you pointed out.

    This subjective logic is quite inconvenient for the nice people out there because those that indulge themselves in it will always continue to rationalize their behavior in such a way, and always leave the nice guys with the short straws.

    Seems I'm pretty pessimistic, lol

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