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  1. #21
    Shaman BlackCat's Avatar
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    That's a good thing William.

    (not addressed to you William)- These threads on INFPs are just sort of silly. 99% of them are about enneagram 4's, and other 4's could relate to the INFP OP's issues as well. "Fi doms" =/= enneagram 4 traits. The descriptions of these things overlap, due to INFPs having enneagram 4 as the most common type.
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

    sCueI (primary Inquisition)

  2. #22
    Uniqueorn William K's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat View Post
    That's a good thing William.
    Thanks, but I would still look back from time to time and think of all the times I wasted and spent wallowing in self-pity, instead of living my life.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by William K View Post
    I guess it could be a 4w5 issue. When I was younger, I would focus on the worst case scenario of everything. When something goes wrong, I would over-analyze it and figure that I was the one at fault, or "things would have been different, if I had done this instead". At work, I would either just freeze and do nothing for fear of making a mistake, or lash out at the smallest things. My colleagues learnt to avoid me when I got into this mood.

    Over time, I've learned to not take everything personally and can recognize when my thoughts are going down the dark paths early enough to turn away, but I know that it will always be there.


  4. #24
    No Cigar Litvyak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by William K View Post
    I would still look back from time to time and think of all the times I wasted and spent wallowing in self-pity, instead of living my life.
    So you wasted time wallowing in self-pity to look back at how much time you've wasted wallowing in self-pity?
    [/sarcasm] Ugh, if I could stop loving those NFPs...

  5. #25
    Uniqueorn William K's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Litvyak View Post
    So you wasted time wallowing in self-pity to look back at how much time you wasted wallowing in self-pity?
    It's an endless loop isn't it? *reaches for the Ctrl-Break keys*

  6. #26
    Retired Member Wonkavision's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Litvyak View Post
    So you wasted time wallowing in self-pity to look back at how much time you've wasted wallowing in self-pity?
    [/sarcasm] Ugh, if I could stop loving those NFPs...
    Good observation.

    My wife is an INFP 4w5, so I marvel at this all the time.
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  7. #27
    Senior Member Soar337's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Litvyak View Post
    So you wasted time wallowing in self-pity to look back at how much time you've wasted wallowing in self-pity?
    [/sarcasm] Ugh, if I could stop loving those NFPs...
    LOL
    <3

  8. #28
    Ginkgo
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    4w5 INFPs seek negativity as a means of learning. It must be an independent process, as what is "good" for some may be "bad" for others. I don't think that INFPs generally trust others' experiences because they view themselves as individuals, free from the clutches of outside preference.

    For instance, if someone were to tell me that Twilight was an excellent book because everyone reads it, my skepticism would override. I would think "Why should I read this book?", "What significance does it hold for me." "My tastes are different. They must be different."

    Seek the fire first-hand before determining whether it burns. This is the only way to discover personal relevance and authenticity. This process is the origin of all truth.

  9. #29
    Head Pigeon Mad Hatter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat View Post
    These threads on INFPs are just sort of silly. 99% of them are about enneagram 4's, and other 4's could relate to the INFP OP's issues as well. "Fi doms" =/= enneagram 4 traits. The descriptions of these things overlap, due to INFPs having enneagram 4 as the most common type.
    Maybe. But I cannot emphasize the following strongly enough: Sadness is not a part of anyone's personality. MBTI, enneagram models etc. can offer some valuable insight as to why there is a certain tendency towards that emotions. But sadness in itself is not a personality trait. I've sometimes thought to myself "Well, I'm a sad person. Can't help it." But I'm glad I got out of it. You will not lose a single bit of your individuality if you try to oppose that tendency. Especially to an INFP, I think trying to influence your own emotions can be a very interesting and rewarding process.

    That said, keep in mind that sadness and depression (in the clinical sense) are two different things, even if the feeling is intense. In fact, you can sometimes be glad that you're still able to feel sad. I've had moments when I could feel nothing anymore.

  10. #30
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Note: I'm 4w5 enneagram.

    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    I'm not trying to be inflammatory or anything but it seems (and this is from my observations of FPs in the MBTI world) to me that FPs wear their emotional scars like soldiers wear medals and ribbons.
    It's more that my emotional scars tend to be visible to those that come close to me. Fi tends to show itself as the vulnerable part of me in all its glory to those that can be trusted with this. This includes emotional battlescars, but also transformations that ensued from them.

    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    I don't enjoy feeling my emotional turmoil and I don't understand why anyone would enjoy feeling it or wallowing in it. The way I think of it is there's this dark cave with skeletons littered everywhere. There's a foul smell coming from it. There are signs warning you not to go in that cave. You have just as much of a chance of becoming one of those skeletons laying on the ground as emerging victoriously from the cave. If you do emerge from the cave, you're more than likely to be traumatized in some way from what you experienced.
    But that cave is a part of you. If you dare not enter, who will? And...are you really capable of ignoring something which stench is spreading through your entire being? For that matter, if you are the cave and you made it..what's there to be afraid of? Yourself? My experience is that those skeletons don't bite, they just tend to be lodged in the sands of time, remaining half-buried only and a bitch to remove completley. The painful part is overcoming that wall of fire at the entrance, and the mirror right behind it, causing you to stand in the fire forever as you don't want to face what you've done or what you are and. If you're not careful, you end up never getting to those skeletons and giving them a proper burial while forever trapped in the fire.


    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    When everything is telling you don't do it, don't go in there, why go there? I know I'm a Fe and what makes good sense to Fe doesn't necessarily make sense to Fi but I don't need to touch fire to know that it burns. I don't need to have scalding burns and blistering skin to fully experience every nook and cranny of pain. I'm far more willing to experience the fullness of positive emotion than negative emotion, but then we get into the whole sweet/sour, dark/light blase blase.
    Hehe. Oh it's no picnic, for sure. But I find that walking through the fire...(mind you walking, not standing still in it!) is..rather purifying. Scratch that, it's intensely purifying. And most Fi's don't have a choice, ime. The fire finds them anyways. Either you constantly run from it, becoming paranoid of the shadows. Or, another option is, you can stand there, fight and refuse to walk on, constantly getting burned and panicking like mad and getting burned over and over again, in a continuous loop, coz there's no way you'll win. Or you can accept it, weather through it and find out what's on the other side of it. Usually, it's well worth the pain and the experience. The wisdom that lies behind it is..worth every little flame.

    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    And often to me it seems like people who seek these types of emotional experiences tend to carry a lot of baggage from their journeys. What is wrong with being free and uncluttered and learning vicariously through others? How can you travel down these paths and not expect to pick up anything, which once again is just as likely to be bad mojo as it is to be "good"?
    That's the ones that haven't learned how to walk through the fire yet, I'd say (it's never easy to do either!). Those that are in fact carrying those shadows, those skeletons from the past. As for what you're describing..it's like asking you to stop taking care of others coz it exhausts you. Experiencing in an emotional way is a part of me. It's what I'm meant to do. Why run from who you are? Sure, a reprieve sometimes is nice, and god knows we all have done the whole cocoon thing. But it always ends up biting you in the ass, with you feeling dull,dead and empty, I find. I'd rather be screaming at the top of my lungs, being burned by the emotional fire, than feel as if I'm dead. At least the Fire will let me know I'm alive.

    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    I can see that if you're one of the people goes through the fire and does well, how thr fullness of understanding helps your to reach those in the darkest corners. But it seems to me there are other ways to reach people in the trenches if that is what your goal is. I know people tend to be more receptive to those who have experienced the same things they have, there's greater room for understanding and I agree with that. But for me personally, I don't seek out such things or when they happen to me I don't try to purposely go further down the hole. If things happen to move in that direction then what can you do but move with it, but no purposely delving into negativity for me. I don't view this type of seeking as being "deeper" and in some ways I view it as incredibly foolish.
    I doubt any of us seek out these (negative) experiences consciously. But when they do happen, it's not exactly a choice to not fully experience them in this way. At least, it isn't to me. Imo, it takes skill and experience in fact, to channel them in such a way that you're not consumed by them entirely. And even then, it's only a tool to help you go through it. I do feel drawn to negative emotions in people, simply because they are so hard to ignore and you want it to stop. Of course you wanna help the person, but you also want to stop the 'emotional polution' they're spreading. The fact that you've been there, you've experienced it as well, can idd help that process. Depending on the emotion they're spreading it kinda reminds me of seeing a will o' the wisp dance during a moonless night in the fog amidst treacherous marshes. Irresistable...and with a good guide...so worth it.

    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    I guess in MBTI terms, this is extroverted perception at work but sorry I see more effed upness as a result of this than great emotional counselors. I see a lot of hurt people and some overcome and some don't. I don't advocate exploring things like this to their fullest. I think if you sense you're headed in a bad direction, take heed to your senses and go in the opposite direction.
    Grin..it takes a while before the student becomes a master, and it can be a painful path to say the least. You are right, avoid trouble if you can, but that's not always an option, even if you turn around. Often, although my senses are warning me, my gut is pretty sure that I need to do this. And learn from it. And if I were to turn around, I'd end up feeling empty, and lifeless and have a knot in my stomach till I turn around.
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