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  1. #1
    Senior Member Priori's Avatar
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    Default Question for ENFJs

    I'm reading "ENFJ Personal Growth" and it recommends that to grow as an invidual and ENFJ should pay attention to their 'inner images.'

    Can any ENFJs here shed some light these 'inner images'?

    Thanks in advance

    To grow as an individual, the ENFJ needs to focus on paying attention to their inner images. This means they need to be open to the possibilities that lie beneath their judgements and values, rather than just accepting the appearance of values which accord with their sense of rightness. The ENFJ needs to understand that developing their ability to see the subjective possibilities within themselves and others does not threaten their ability to make correct judgements, but rather enhances it, and enhances their personal chances for achieving a measure of success in their lives.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Scott N Denver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Priori View Post
    I'm reading "ENFJ Personal Growth" and it recommends that to grow as an invidual and ENFJ should pay attention to their 'inner images.'

    Can any ENFJs here shed some light these 'inner images'?

    Thanks in advance
    I think inner images => Ni, and all that values stuff=Fe. In short, develop and exercise your Ni. At least thats my best stab at what they mean.

  3. #3
    Member bronson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Priori View Post
    I'm reading "ENFJ Personal Growth" and it recommends that to grow as an invidual and ENFJ should pay attention to their 'inner images.'

    Can any ENFJs here shed some light these 'inner images'?

    Thanks in advance

    I find it an odd proposition to 'open to the possibilities that lie beneath [our] judgements and values' simply because we are already both inherently Intuitive as well as Judging. Its as though this is saying that we must stop being ESFJ's and become ENFP's or something.

    However, the inner images of the ENFJ form one complex beast, let me tell you. Most of the time they're lost deep below a multitude of insincere exteriors. And yet, I feel that sometimes we truly believe we are these false exterior images we project.

    To be a J and develop the 'subjective possibilites within [oneself]' can be, I believe, a difficult task. Mainly because, as I explained elsewhere (this being only my experience of course) to explore said possibilities is to throw oneself into ideological chaos. At which point control and organisation of the true hidden self-image is once more seriously challenged and possibly temporarily lost... and this is painful and traumatic.

    With our great variety of masks, great solace is found in the knowledge that there is a true-blue you underneath - that while I'm playing as the Artisan, or aggreeing with some NT's concept that I don't really aggree with at all, there is a real me underneath. If I explore reformations of that I might lose it, and not know who I am, and with the many other pretend me's around, this would just be too much to handle - hello meltdown.



    As much as the author you're reading may believe that this development process will enhance our Judgements, it's almost as though its just too hard, and scary to hand your most sacred inner self over to such a risky task.

    Its far easier to slip into one of the various other-selves (what a concept!), which are somewhat fake, but our tool to supreme socialisation.

  4. #4
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    You're a judger before you are an intuitive. Thus a leader. And if you're not going to check out what's possible beyond your current judgment, then I ain't following your leadership. In layman's terms, I needn't accept an obligation to respect your feelings. Does anyone have to? If you have not determined what options are available for your decisions (that is, for your feelings about what should happen), does anyone need to care about what you say should happen? Thus, be open to the possibilities that lie beneath your current judgments. The options. The choices. The different ways the same end point can be reached. The varieties of people and their different ways of doing things. That's what it means by "be aware of possibilities." (I suppose.)



    Now, was that support for Ni and thus support for ENFJs, or was that support for Fi, and thus cancellation of ENFJs? Who knows any more.
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

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  5. #5
    Member bronson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    The different ways the same end point can be reached.

    (What end point are you referring to?

    I don't think there's an end point. I guess if you just mean whatever it is that our inner images have transfromed into after abandoning the values and judgements held onto, at the particular beginning point of this development, in order to explore these new subjective possibilities, then that makes sense.)

    Anyway, aren't our current values and judgements we hold onto already dictated by something else? According to the quote our 'sense of rightness'. So, in that case, in order to develop we have to go against our sense of rightness, which, what? naturally quashes our freedom in intuitive exploration?

    And what is our sense of rightness - its the conclusion we've already come to about the world through such explorations; a formed worldview, or even something more innate.
    I guess the quote just sounds extreme - to put aside the conclusions you've come to thus far so as to find other options of what you could look like inside. That's a big process.

    Then in regards to leadership, we'd seem somewhat capricious and unreliable to abandone whatever it is we previously maintained as our true qualities and become something different. Who's going to respect that?
    And the point here isn't even necessarily what another thinks about our feelings, it's the way we feel about who we truly are underneath.

    And all this isn't to say that there isn't a willingness to explore ideas and concepts, which will, as before, continue to strengthen who we already are. But to adopt them as your own image and state that - this is who I am, I am no longer who I was; that's not simple.


    I know, it all sounds like bad faith, and ultimately I'm not saying it isn't a worthwhile process. I think my main point before was I don't believe it's easy for the ENFJ individual to simply depart from the way in which they naturally understand the world in order to explore different and undetermined options of what they could look like inside.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Phoenix_400's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bronson View Post
    (What end point are you referring to?

    I don't think there's an end point. I guess if you just mean whatever it is that our inner images have transfromed into after abandoning the values and judgements held onto, at the particular beginning point of this development, in order to explore these new subjective possibilities, then that makes sense.)

    Anyway, aren't our current values and judgements we hold onto already dictated by something else? According to the quote our 'sense of rightness'. So, in that case, in order to develop we have to go against our sense of rightness, which, what? naturally quashes our freedom in intuitive exploration?
    Nothing worth doing is ever easy. Simple perhaps, but not easy.
    The really isn't an endpoint. As long you're alive there's opportunity to grow and learn.

    I bolded a good question you asked in the quote and now I want to ask you. ARE your values dictated by something else? We are the sum total of our experiences and the way we've reacted to them. This is true. Do you believe what you believe because others told you it was right, or because you looked deep within yourself and asked if its what you held true for you? I don't think its a matter of abandoning your values and judgments,as you stated, but of making sure those values are authentic.

    There came a point in my life where I questioned everything I'd ever been told and everything I believed in. I looked deep, I tested, I accepted when I realized there were things I thought I believed in that felt wrong when looking deeper. It was hell doing that, but I feel much more myself by having done it.

    Maybe the big thing this asks is to start showing your inner self more. We can never escape ourselves, but we can start asserting ourselves more. Instead of agreeing just to get along, don't be afraid to ruffle feathers. Tell others how you REALLY feel. Show yourself. In this way, you find out who your real friends are because they accept you even if there are things you disagree with. You may develop fewer bonds, but those bonds you do develop will be far stronger.

    I'm fine with only having a small circle of close friends and even they want to strangle me sometimes. It hurts me when I've upset them or we disagree with each other, but it would be more torturous for me to know that I've compromised myself for something I don't believe in. I crave acceptance, but only from those I value. Anyone else who doesn't like me can usually piss off. I can be diplomatic when the situation calls for it, but sometimes you just have to be willing to piss people off.

    This is coming from an INxP though, it may be different for you ENFJ types. Am I completely off the mark here? I just did a quick speed read through this thread.
    "People in glass houses shouldn't use Windex when living near bird sanctuaries."- myself

    "We are never alone my friend. We are constantly in the company of victories, losses, strengths and weaknesses. Make no mistake, life is war...and war is hell. Those who fight the hardest will suffer the most...but that's what you have to do: Fight. As long as you're feeling pain, then there's hope...because only the dead do not suffer." -RD Metcalf
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  7. #7
    Member MmmCrazy's Avatar
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    You have to question your faith to grow in it. That's what they're trying to tell the ENFJs.

    It's a completely valid point, and one I have to be reminded of often!

  8. #8
    Senior Member nynesneg's Avatar
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    This means they need to be open to the possibilities that lie beneath their judgements and values, rather than just accepting the appearance of values which accord with their sense of rightness.
    I can relate to this. I have been told I focus so much on my idealistic values and goals that I miss great opportunities because they don't meet my goal up on a pedestal.

    I think I second guess myself and feel guilty about things I wish I had done differently too much. Not sure the deep way to improve that though.

  9. #9
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    I'm constantly undergoing evolution for many reasons, mostly external ones that compel me toward change for the sake of survival. I find it difficult to shed light on this topic because motivation has always been there, probably because I grew up with a kinetic Ne-primary who was always on the prowl for something to do or a new thing to try.

    Inner images, like Crazy said, has everything to do with "faith". We stand on sure ground in terms of subjective values, feelings, etc, but can lose touch with/recoil from reality when it proves inevitably to be too harsh or brutal. I wonder if that's why a great deal of us become writers - creating an elaborate reality more real than real itself that matches what we see so clearly and tangibly in our heads. This doesn't mean having no concept of reality, but rather an overlaid layer of heaven against the revolting bloody background that we so hate.
    eNFJ 4w3 sx/so 468 tritype
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by PinkPiranha View Post
    I'm constantly undergoing evolution for many reasons, mostly external ones that compel me toward change for the sake of survival. I find it difficult to shed light on this topic because motivation has always been there, probably because I grew up with a kinetic Ne-primary who was always on the prowl for something to do or a new thing to try.

    Inner images, like Crazy said, has everything to do with "faith". We stand on sure ground in terms of subjective values, feelings, etc, but can lose touch with/recoil from reality when it proves inevitably to be too harsh or brutal. I wonder if that's why a great deal of us become writers - creating an elaborate reality more real than real itself that matches what we see so clearly and tangibly in our heads. This doesn't mean having no concept of reality, but rather an overlaid layer of heaven against the revolting bloody background that we so hate.
    This is just from observation, but is this recoil when reality becomes more than you "think" you can handle in terms of values and feelings on an internal personal level? You lose faith that you can do it or that you can handle your personal life?

    How does this apply to the burdens others place on you vs the burdens you place on yourself in regards to things being to brutal or harsh?

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