User Tag List

First 12

Results 11 to 18 of 18

  1. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    STP
    Posts
    10,501

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bronson View Post
    I know, it all sounds like bad faith, and ultimately I'm not saying it isn't a worthwhile process. I think my main point before was I don't believe it's easy for the ENFJ individual to simply depart from the way in which they naturally understand the world in order to explore different and undetermined options of what they could look like inside.
    It is hard, just like its hard for an I type to realize or accept what they look like outside.

  2. #12
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Posts
    4,318

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bronson View Post
    (What end point are you referring to?
    Decisions about what other people should do, the proper ordering of people and their relationships, harmony. Values, I guess.

    I'm not totally sure about this, but I think the advice about inner images refers to the path to the value, not (necessarily) the value itself. Making the value richer and deeper by choosing to see a deeper complexity, a longer journey, becoming aware of different expressions of the same thing. It's not so much abandoning the value as it is affirming it in new ways.

    Abandoning immediate value judgment for the sake of longer term development, discovery and expression of that judgment. You can't do it too much or you would be abandoning your identity, but if it's not done at all, the identity stays shallow.


    All ENFJs I know have "the dream". They choose to see a huge picture of what everything isn't now but will be, sometimes looking years into the future. Unless I am mistaken, that is where the "inner images" are. So whatever that "advice for growth" is, it looks like ENFJs do it naturally anyway. The advice is presumably just to let you know one of the things you guys do is a good process and worth actively supporting in yourself.




    What I have heard expressed is that sometimes those inner images can be horrible and very hard to bear.
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

  3. #13
    Senior Member nynesneg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    MBTI
    ENFJ
    Enneagram
    3w2
    Posts
    357

    Default

    "An ENFJ who has not found their place in the world is likely to be extremely sensitive to criticism, and to have the tendency to worry excessively and feel guilty. " "As giving and caring as the ENFJ is, they need to remember to value their own needs as well as the needs of others." "Tendency to not give themselves credit when things go right" Link.

    ^Aha moment! Would not say I'm extremely sensitive, I'm just 10x harder on myself to begin with than the person who critisizes me. I tend to put other people's needs above my own, and at times take on their problems myself.


    Suggestions from older mature ENFJs on their journey of personal growth?

  4. #14
    Member bronson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    MBTI
    ENFJ
    Enneagram
    3w4
    Socionics
    EIE
    Posts
    93

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix_400 View Post

    I bolded a good question you asked in the quote and now I want to ask you. ARE your values dictated by something else? We are the sum total of our experiences and the way we've reacted to them. This is true. Do you believe what you believe because others told you it was right, or because you looked deep within yourself and asked if its what you held true for you? I don't think its a matter of abandoning your values and judgments,as you stated, but of making sure those values are authentic.
    Well, the thing is, all humans, I believe, are intersubjective beings and therefore its unescapable that we 'believe what we believe because others have told [us] its right'. In the same way, we are involved in forming the beliefs, values and judegments of others - like this here forum right now.
    I do agree that its important to discern what is true for your experience in life... but ultimately what you know as true for yourself aint just something you dream up yourself.

    But definitely aggree with that last statement that such a process aids in authenticating the values we already have, rather than leaving them behind.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    All ENFJs I know have "the dream". They choose to see a huge picture of what everything isn't now but will be, sometimes looking years into the future. Unless I am mistaken, that is where the "inner images" are. So whatever that "advice for growth" is, it looks like ENFJs do it naturally anyway. The advice is presumably just to let you know one of the things you guys do is a good process and worth actively supporting in yourself.
    Dude thats a good point. Something I very much relate to.

    Quote Originally Posted by PinkPiranha View Post
    We stand on sure ground in terms of subjective values, feelings, etc, but can lose touch with/recoil from reality when it proves inevitably to be too harsh or brutal.
    Exactly. And I liked your point about why we all become writers

  5. #15
    Senior Member toast's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    MBTI
    ENFJ
    Enneagram
    2w3
    Posts
    249

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by poki View Post
    This is just from observation, but is this recoil when reality becomes more than you "think" you can handle in terms of values and feelings on an internal personal level? You lose faith that you can do it or that you can handle your personal life?

    How does this apply to the burdens others place on you vs the burdens you place on yourself in regards to things being to brutal or harsh?
    You know what's funny about this to me? The more I think about the "burdens" people place on me, the more I realize they are filtered through me before I feel them. Like other people don't really effect me much at all, but these "ideals" I have (very quickly) define how much something hurts or effects me. I feel like nothing gets to me unless I put it there, but at the same time I am out of control. Like my mind has committed itself to follow my own rules. So when I'm overwhelmed, I can't just stop it... even though I know I consciously know somehow I am "capable" of stopping it. It is probably one of the reasons things can effect me so deeply. Because not only do I feel bad from the burden, but I also feel frustration that I "can't" shake it. Does this make sense to anyone else?

  6. #16
    Senior Member nynesneg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    MBTI
    ENFJ
    Enneagram
    3w2
    Posts
    357

    Default

    ^I agree. Also perhaps my inner Ti (or self taught), tries to put all my emotions away and come up with a logical way to "fix" the problem (my intense feelings) which might be impossible. Although it is a useful mechanism so you don't dwell in pessimism.
    3w2


    Those who are content being normal lack the depth and passion to rise above mediocracy.
    To push beyond their natural abilities and create a reality from their dreams.

  7. #17
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    MBTI
    eNFJ
    Enneagram
    4w3 sx/so
    Socionics
    eNFJ Ni
    Posts
    11,443

    Default

    I immediately go into "fix it" mode (or as I call it, "dipping souls out of the Styx") if I don't restrain myself. My tertiary Se wants to DO something, force a total victory or at least a stalemate against the antagonizing presence, on my behalf or for others. I feel like I have all the drive and force for conquest that an ENTJ has, while being tethered tightly to my INFJ ideals and sensitivities. It makes things precarious for me, trying to balance the angel and the dragon, especially since my E/I split is almost 50/50.
    eNFJ 4w3 sx/so 468 tritype
    Neutral Good
    EII-Fi subtype, Ethical/Empath, Delta/Beta
    RLUEI, Choleric/Melancholic
    Inquistive/Limbic
    AIS Holland code
    Researcher: VDI-P
    Dramatic>Sensitive>Serious

  8. #18
    Senior Member toast's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    MBTI
    ENFJ
    Enneagram
    2w3
    Posts
    249

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nynesneg View Post
    put all my emotions away and come up with a logical way to "fix" the problem (my intense feelings) which might be impossible.
    God, that seems to completely fail about a hundred times before it succeeds - quieting your emotions by looking for a logical solution. And then try doing that when the problems are coming from someone you've chosen to care deeply for & you are stuck in an endless formidable loop that only they, or time & distraction, can get you out of.

    Though our thinking comes well after our thinking... It almost seems like I'm convinced upon feeling something that I've already justified the feeling somehow. So I have to argue myself out of it. Maybe "inner images" could be applied to that too... the ideals that shape our emotional reactions.

Similar Threads

  1. [ENFJ] The mom of an ENFJ has a question for other ENFJs
    By INTJMom in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 07-02-2016, 12:08 PM
  2. [NF] questions for/about INFJ and ENFJ men
    By curiousjane in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 30
    Last Post: 06-27-2012, 10:58 AM
  3. [ENFJ] What is depression like for ENFJs?
    By Harlow_Jem in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 05-31-2012, 03:40 PM
  4. [ENFJ] Hypothetical question for ENFJs regarding backstabbing
    By Ozzy26 in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 05-09-2010, 07:00 PM
  5. [ENFJ] question for ENFJ's
    By bearette in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 34
    Last Post: 04-15-2009, 03:45 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO