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  1. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    I think that's it for me with INFP friendships - I just don't know where I'm at and I'm not sure what the signs are when I am in. For me, it seems like my signs are quite clear (even though I know that NFPs don't always feel that way), so I think Protean's analysis of that is something that I can identify with. It seems to me that INFP friendships are always more on their terms. It's not that it's bad, because we have a fun time together and everything. It's just that I don't know that I could really count on them consistently or that things between us are as I perceive them. When they are going through something, they just disappear and I'm not sure how to help them or even where to find them in a sense. I think I'm relatively perceptive and a good listener and make a point of not offering very much advice to them, but still...
    That's exactly how I feel about INFP friendships as well. It seems like we get along great, we have fun and everything but there's always some distance between us. They're not that great on follow-up. Maybe it's just me, expecting too much. I let them have their space but still...

  2. #72
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    I very much agree with the NFJ responses like Protean's about a linear progression toward a very personal friendship, but I also find this post interesting:

    Quote Originally Posted by JivinJeffJones View Post
    The major problem I tend to have revolves around the INFJ doorslam. I'm a troubled person, I don't think that comes as a shock to anyone on this board. I have a lot of problems. Being an INFP, these have emotional consequences which I try to keep from others (irl at least), but with close friends who probe it just isn't possible (and INFJs probe a lot). Being "real" about yourself even when it's ugly is a huge part of intimacy for INFPs. The biggest. My problem with INFJs is that they get really invested in trying to fix me. I appreciate the concern, and the effort. I really do. But, for reasons not clear to me but almost certainly my fault, their solutions tend to either not work or not stick. Then they get disappointed and upset, and eventually frustrated/resentful. They keep picking at you until it gets to the point where neither of you can relax in the other's presence. Then the INFJ doorslam. Thus I've found the only way to maintain a degree of friendship with them is to not be real with them. Keep them out. Obviously they pick up on this. This has all been based on my experience with only a few INFJs, so I'm not really sure how true-to-type it is.

    So I guess it boils down to what I perceive as the ongoing conditionality of their friendship. I don't think it's an unreasonable quality to have -- in fact it makes perfect sense. But for me once a friendship passes a certain point it's pretty much irrevocable. I'm 80% sure I'd help a genuine friend bury a body, even if I spent the next 50 years trying to convince them to turn themselves in. That is what it is -- I don't think it's a virtue. I'm sure it isn't, actually.

    Thinking about it some more, with the INFJ friendships I've had the "being real" process has seemed to me to be a one-way street. I share with them, they use what I share to try to fix me. They don't share back, unless it's in the form of "this is how I learned the lesson of why you should do this". I'm not saying that if I share something personal with you then you owe me something personal back. But when there seems to be a blatant pattern of one-sidedness to this unveiling of self then I have to wonder at the dynamic of the friendship. Often it seems to me that these confessions serve simply to give them leverage to tell me how to live my life. Which makes me wonder if they're really friends at all, or simply a kind of roaming developmental paramedic. So I guess I've never really felt that close to INFJs.

    There are other things which irk revolving mostly around typical Fe/Fi differences, but those are the biggest for me personally.

    Edit: nothing in this post is based on any forum INFJs.
    JJJ, do you think it has anything to do with the INxJ fixation on constantly growing oneself? I'm not an INFJ, but I can imagine myself in that situation as them, and I wonder if the INFJ need to see others constantly growing is the problem here rather than a blatant unacceptance of who you are and where you're at. IMO the constant growth thing refers more to the attitude of working at it and attending to the flaws rather than the output of results and improvement.
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
    C.S. Lewis

  3. #73
    Senior Member JivinJeffJones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    JJJ, do you think it has anything to do with the INxJ fixation on constantly growing oneself? I'm not an INFJ, but I can imagine myself in that situation as them, and I wonder if the INFJ need to see others constantly growing is the problem here rather than a blatant unacceptance of who you are and where you're at. IMO the constant growth thing refers more to the attitude of working at it and attending to the flaws rather than the output of results and improvement.
    It could be, I don't entirely understand it myself. I seem to remember an INFJ on these boards saying that it happened as a kind of self-defence mechanism. Rather than endure the increasing frustration and helplessness of seeing a lack of progress (or deterioration) in areas which are clearly causing problems, they cut the person out of their life. Basically, if it has to happen they'd rather not witness it.

  4. #74
    Senior Member WoodsWoman's Avatar
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    Is it perhaps that Fe needs to see others growing and Fi needs to sense oneself growing? The latter would be very true for me.

  5. #75
    "Everything in its place" fill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WoodsWoman View Post
    Is it perhaps that Fe needs to see others growing and Fi needs to sense oneself growing? The latter would be very true for me.
    That's an interesting hypothesis. I like it.
    "Poor bastard. Wait 'till he sees the bats. "
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  6. #76
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WoodsWoman View Post
    Is it perhaps that Fe needs to see others growing and Fi needs to sense oneself growing? The latter would be very true for me.
    I think it's the Nidom way of life. Growth in self, growth in others, or what's the point in living?
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
    C.S. Lewis

  7. #77
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    One thing I was just thinking about. My INFP friend doesn't seem to need interactions with someone to solve a problem as long as she has resolved it within herself. I, on the other hand, need the closure/input from the other person involved to feel that things are resolved. Maybe the significant factor is that Fe looks to others to find the answer and Fi looks to find the answer within itself.

    This is why INFJs feel the need to try to help along those close to them that are in distress and is why they find it painful to see them floundering and seemingly doing nothing. It's because they feel there is an external solution and they also believe that talking about it will help the answer take shape. To an INFP this is pushy and ineffectual because no one can see inside them or truly understand their unique person/situation and therefore no one except themselves can really offer the answer.

    On the other hand, INFPs tend to leave a person to their own devices and assume that they need to find the answer within themselves for it to really be solved. To an INFJ, this seems like indifference or a lack of care. They feel abandoned. Their thought process needs to be stimulated to some extent by discussing it with others. That's when their own thoughts and feelings take a tangible form that they can actually touch and grab onto. (Without that, they can see those thoughts or feelings, but they are fuzzy and they can't grab hold of them).

    I'm not sure if this is expressed very clearly, or if it is something that others can identify with, but I think it may be the cause of some of the misunderstandings I feel with INFPs. They have a hard time seeing why I can't just let something go that's bothering me if I know what the probable reason is and I can't do anything about it to fix it. They find it much easier to let go, as long as it's found resolution within themselves. For me though, I need that last bit of interaction to really lay the whole thing to rest and realize that nothing can be done to fix what's wrong.
    Last edited by fidelia; 12-13-2009 at 02:42 AM.

  8. #78
    Senior Member WoodsWoman's Avatar
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    I like the way you've put this fidelia. Very nice.

  9. #79
    Senior Member Scott N Denver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    One thing I was just thinking about. My INFP friend doesn't seem to need interactions with someone to solve a problem as long as she has resolved it within herself. I, on the other hand, need the closure/input from the other person involved to feel that things are resolved. Maybe the significant factor is that Fe looks to others to find the answer and Fi looks to find the answer within itself.

    This is why INFJs feel the need to try to help along those close to them that are in distress and is why they find it painful to see them floundering and seemingly doing nothing. It's because they feel there is an external solution and they also believe that talking about it will help the answer take shape. To an INFP this is pushy and ineffectual because no one can see inside them or truly understand their unique person/situation and therefore no one except themselves can really offer the answer.

    On the other hand, INFPs tend to leave a person to their own devices and assume that they need to find the answer within themselves for it to really be solved. To an INFJ, this seems like indifference or a lack of care. They feel abandoned. Their thought process (even apart from the other person involved in the problem) needs to be stimulated to some extent by discussing it with others. That's when their own thoughts and feelings take a tangible form that they can actually touch and grab onto. (Before, they can see it those thoughts or feelings, but they are fuzzy and they can't grab hold of them).

    I'm not sure if this is expressed very clearly, or if it is something that others can identify with, but I think it may be the cause of some of the misunderstandings I feel with INFPs. They have a hard time seeing why I can't just let something go that's bothering me if I know what the probable reason is and I can't do anything about it to fix it. They find it much easier to let go, as long as it's found resolution within themselves. For me though, I need that last bit of interaction to really lay the whole thing to rest and realize that nothing can be done to fix what's wrong.
    Very well put, I had never thought about it before. Very interesting...

  10. #80
    にゃん runvardh's Avatar
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    Strange, I've typically tried to solve my own problems first before cracking and seeing if others can help. However, when it comes to others having problems, I've had to talk myself out of helping due to them often dragging me into their shit pile with them instead of wanting a way out. I wish I could help people, but people need to want out first and I need to get my shit together...
    Dreams are best served manifest and tangible.

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