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  1. #31
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    I've been through many of these comparison threads, and read numerous profiles on the two types, but for some reason the points of contention between INFP and INFJ are often inverted in various descriptions. This has left me quite confused about which trait belongs to which type. It might be an external vs. internal aspects of the same traits present in both types, but expressed differently, but I'm really not sure. The traits that are often flip-flopped have to do with how much of self is revealed, how much certitude of values is possessed, how much tolerance, how easily offended, etc. I really like both types. I realize this is not a particularly helpful post except that it represents those who are confused by categorizing the differing points of contention.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  2. #32
    Senior Member Scott N Denver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WoodsWoman View Post
    OA - your post is priceless - one I'm going to have to print off for reference.

    For me Fi is so internal I have to use my own Ne to reference it. It is difficult to quantify to myself, never mind anyone else and all my explanations are going to be circuitous metaphors rarely able to state any of it directly.
    which post is this??? I don't see one of hers previous to yours. Was it deleted or are you thinking of a different thread?

  3. #33
    Senior Member Scott N Denver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    I can relate to this to a certain degree, but am not sure if it's to the same extent or not. Related to your thought that it feels the infp is 'directing you towards what they feel is right....', I can get the same feeling at times. I do not know that that is their intent, but I admit I can read it as such. I don't necessarily read the mellowness as without intent...I think there is an aim behind it, so I don't read it as pure 'mellowness', because I think that is a facade to an extent, as I know at the same time that they DO have very solid beliefs deep down, and are particular about certain things. But maybe too I'm just misreading and that's totally not the case.

    I do think it's the result of the INFP's dominant introverted process being a judging one, and their extroverted nature being perceiving -- that would explain their outward flexibility, more 'unassertive language'/probing/seemingly random comments being thrown out there, while you can sense inwardly they are relatively certain of their values and beliefs and not as apt to change those. More solid on the inside, not so much on the outside. I think this contributes to my ease in communicating, opening up, and trusting that anything I say will be perfectly ok and acceptable with fellow INFJ's, and less so with INFP's. I don't trust at all that I can be perfectly frank with INFP's, because I could easily step on their values or offend them unintentionally if I were truly honest.

    INFJ's (well, at least me, haha) having a dominant perceiving process would be more flexible inside, more hazy, less solid, in terms of values/beliefs, and openness to vastly different perspectives. But, yes, less open on the outside, more controlled, more purposeful, perhaps, and more direct in communication/language, definitely more compartmentalized and choosy about who to share what with, at what time. Many walls, as Jennifer noted. As for a comment made of INFP's being the most non-judgemental...I am not sure I agree. Externally they seem quite mellow, certainly; but their internal system is so sound, and they tend to have much more certainty regarding their beliefs and right/wrong, than I or a few of my INFJ friends tend to have. But...the INFJ's outwardly judging process probably contributes to this sense of judgment -- outwardly the INFJ would be viewed as more inflexible and probably less open when it comes to sharing.

    I think Jennifer raises some interesting/good points as well, especially regarding openness of self.

    Honestly I don't see INFJ's and INFP's as being terribly similar to one another!! Taking the three INFP's I know into consideration, there are definite differences.
    I'm not sure how across the board it is, but I've seen intimations many times than INFJ's seemt o think that INFP's are hiding something, or have some big hidden "agenda" hiding write behind that corner that we want an INFJ to commit to and them the INFP will smack the INFJ with it or something. As for casual, for me, I often have a certain, but not total, flexibility about what I want or am willing to do. Also, its a matter of each persons interest level. So for example, if I wanna do something outside I'll say that, and if someone else is like "Let's ride horses outside", well I don't really like horses but yes that would be outside. So I'd respond with "umm, how about something that doesn't involve horses?" Is that an example of what people here are describing as only partial-flexibility and/or guiding people to what we really wanna do under the premise of being casual/laidback/open??? Further, following this hiking example since it TOTALLY does apply to me: "Let's go hiking, Boulder is really nice, how do you feel aboutgoing hiking there today?" To me that does two things: 1)declares interest in hiking, and 2) demonstrates my interest level in Boulder. Now maybe the person I'm hiking with really hates Boulder and likes, say, Aurora. Well maybe there hate for Boulder and strong interest in Aurora will overweigh my little interest in Aurora and desire for Boulder??? We shall have to see, "So how not into Boulder are you and how into Aurora are you feeling?" I'd call that negotiation and sorting out interest levels of all parties involved. Would other people call that feigning flexibility or something, cuz I'm pushing for Boulder in that example?

    I know that, for me, I'm not likely to push someone into something that they are uncomfortable with, but that would require me knowing that they are uncomfortable with whatever that thing is.

    What annoys me about INFJ's? Their walls. I see the pragmatic value, but don't like them. Also, following plans/expectations so much. Sorta along the lines of [how Scott perceives the INFJ's inner workings, I could totally be wrong though] "Hmmm self, I want to do this thing, but other people are expecting that thing. Well, I'll just keep this thing to myself and tell people that thing. Even though I'm really passionate about this thing, and think that thing is stupid and should be discontinued in practice. And I'll make sure to smile politely while doing that thing, thats what good hostess/teacher/whatever's do. God I hope someone will ask me about this, that way I can give my standard well-practiced spiel about how I'm so passionate about this thing and think that thing is stupid and antiquated. And I'll be sure to say "thank you for asking" because that would be the politer and socially acceptable way to start such a spiel." INFJ's feel free to tell me how wrong that description is. Maybe I've just met lots of INFJ yoga teachers. Well, I have met lots of INFJ yoga teachers.

  4. #34
    Senior Member Scott N Denver's Avatar
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    another observation in my experience with multiple INFJ's:

    What seems to be a projected image of "I have my shit together" and then way later, and generally unexpectedly as far as I can tell, they'll mention how they have been harboring some deep wound/neglect/issue/"skeleton in the closet" that seems to be a MONDO big deal to them. Realistically, thats fine, people are people, people have histories and issues, and plenty of people are "image conscious" so they will want to have this "I have my shit together" image to show others. But it seems to me like, when given lots of openings in multiple conversations to mention it but they don't mention it, and then later, apparently totally out of the blue, they "drop a really big bomb" about their wound/neglect/issue/skeleton, and I'm kinda like "you know, you had LOTS of chances to contextually insert this into related conversations before but didn't, so I'd guess that either it wasn't an issue or else you thought it wasnt that big of an issue, so why are you now acting like its this super world-ending big deal thats eating you alive???"

    My guess is that INFJ's just need lots of time to feel comfortable sharing their deep thoughts/issues/stuff, but overall I'm just surprised that 1) they didn't say it before when the conversation flowed that way anyways, and 2) it seems so the world is ending or whatever to them. Life goes on, the sun comes up in the morning, most people really just don't care that much, this won't cause the world to end.

    To quote from Just your type: "INFP's are frustrated by their partners need to fit into social convention, eve if it isn't really right for them. And INFJ's sense of appropriateness and strict adherence to schedules is not always shared by the more non-conformist INFP's."

  5. #35
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    My guess is that INFJ's just need lots of time to feel comfortable sharing their deep thoughts/issues/stuff, but overall I'm just surprised that 1) they didn't say it before when the conversation flowed that way anyways, and 2) it seems so the world is ending or whatever to them. Life goes on, the sun comes up in the morning, most people really just don't care that much, this won't cause the world to end.
    We're not going to trust just anyone with something that means a great deal to us. It takes a lot of time to trust someone with that information. That shouldn't be such a big surprise.

    And your #2 reason is probably another big reason why we don't share it. If the other person is going to act like something that really means a lot to us (in terms of its impact on us) is frivolous or not a big deal, no way in hell would we want to share it with you. Belittling something that is obviously a big deal to us will get you nowhere fast, just a heads up.

    And of course an INFJ would want to project a "I have it all together" attitude. We do have a certain degree of pride.

  6. #36
    にゃん runvardh's Avatar
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    It's typically when the bomb drops that I finally can take a breath because now we can deal with the issue instead of me guessing there's a problem and having no hope in hell of helping.
    Dreams are best served manifest and tangible.

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    I accept no responsibility, what so ever, for the fact that I exist; I do, however, accept full responsibility for what I do while I exist.

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  7. #37
    Senior Member Scott N Denver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lost verses View Post
    We're not going to trust just anyone with something that means a great deal to us. It takes a lot of time to trust someone with that information. That shouldn't be such a big surprise.

    And your #2 reason is probably another big reason why we don't share it. If the other person is going to act like something that really means a lot to us (in terms of its impact on us) is frivolous or not a big deal, no way in hell would we want to share it with you. Belittling something that is obviously a big deal to us will get you nowhere fast, just a heads up.

    And of course an INFJ would want to project a "I have it all together" attitude. We do have a certain degree of pride.
    My point was not to make light of what others see as a big deal or important. Let me give some examples.
    #1 INFJ: "I'm a yoga teacher and very passionate about yoga. I think people should strive for all that they can be. And yet, I don't feel liek taking the next level of yoga teacher training. How hypocritical and inadequate of me!"
    Me: "Your obviously very committed to your practice and your training, and you teach your class very well. If you don't wanna take the next level of teacher training then don't. Your not required to, and its probably not a good idea to commit time and energy and effort to something that your not interested in. You teach well, there is nothing wrong with continuing to teach the way that you do."
    #2 INFJ: "I'm a yoga teacher and very passionate about it. I think yoga has all sorts of positive influences on a person's life. So I Fell SOOO bad that once I didn't practice for an ENTIRE month! I'm such a hypocrite!"
    Me: "Lots of people take breaks form time to time, and there are various reasons to do so. I practiced daily for years, but after almost dying in an auto collision and having my shoulder/clavicle broken, I wasn't physically able to practice for a few months. That didn't lessen my interest in yoga, it just meant I couldn't practice for a while. Life happens, people get sick, people gte injured, work schedules change, it happens. It's not the end of the world and you get back into practice when you can, that's what is important."

  8. #38
    Senior Member Scott N Denver's Avatar
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    I think INFP's are concerned about violating/invading INFJ's privacy, and INFJ's are concerned about offending INFP's values.

    While I have had my values violated many times, I'm pretty sure no NF has ever done so. And even if by chance an NF did do so in the future, odds are good I'd know they didn't do so intentionally and so I'd let it go. NT's and TJ's are the ones I've had lots of issues with. Unless you set puppies on fire or run cats over with a lawn mower, an NF is probably going to have an EXTREMELY hard time offending my values. Sometimes I'll be talking with someone and I'll defend a position or explain a point, and I might get more intense while doing so, but thats me trying to make sure something is well defended or explained, violating a value would lead to other consequences.

    I have an INTJ friend, and he pulled off a value violatin with the following: "Women don't belong in graduate school classes. They shoudl either be in the kitchen cooking a meal for their family, or raising babies. You Americans think you have it all figured out with your "choices" and "women are equals", but your wrong, and its stupid. We [other country]'s know better, women belong in the kitchen and raising children. That's just how it is." I did NOT take that one very well.

    No NF has ever violated my values that I can think of, and would be hard pressed to do so. Maybe other INFP's are just more prickly than I am on this issue???

    addition: My same INTJ friend has also said things like "Scott, you can't waste all your time talking about unimportant things like your feelings and your favorite vacation spots and hiking and dogs. At some point you have to talk about things that actually matter and are important, like politics and religion. Speaking of which, how can anyone like Hillary Clinton??? She's a b&*$#. Also, how can anyone NOT like George W. Bush???" "How can someone ever think its okay to kill an unborn child!" "Women are inherently irrational and belong in the kitchen."
    Last edited by Scott N Denver; 11-07-2009 at 03:14 AM. Reason: addition

  9. #39
    Senior Member Scott N Denver's Avatar
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    IME INFJ's are generally far more declarative and assertive than are INFP's. INFJ's tend to have more of a "this is who I am, take it or leave it" approach, whereas INFP's tend to casually follow wherever the currents of the stream may take them. Quoting again from Just Your Type: "INFJ's can get especially frustrated with INFP's lack of initiative and follow-through, and with their reluctance to speak up for themselves in public."
    I also think that when either type disagrees with something, the INFP is far more likely to simply rebel internally or quietly stew over something.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    I've noticed a number of INFPs express that they find INFJs difficult to be friends with. I have ended up knowing/being friends with a lot of INFPs, but also can see where some of our differences are more glaring than one might think at first. On here, I find I get along very well with a lot of INFPs and have had interesting/useful conversations in better understanding them.

    Where do you find those areas of contention lie? What do you find hardest to understand about the other type?

    Obviously Fi/Fe is a problem for many...
    One potential area of...disappointment...for INFPs lies in the fact that INFJs extrovert feeling, which can convey great warmth to a needy introverted feeler, who may respond like a moth to a flame, only to discover in an Ni dominant individual a far cooler character than he had bargained for...

    I'm sure more than one INFP has experienced an INFJ as emotionally "disappearing" on them once they got to know them better...

    Other obvious areas of conflict involve the physical (home) environment as INFJs generally are bothered far more by mess, filth and chaos than are INFPs, and the often stark contrast between the INFPs "play ethic" and the INFJs "work ethic."

    I've often wondered if INFP Lennon wrote this song about an INFJ or INTJ:
    YouTube - The Beatles Dear Prudence (High Quality)

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