User Tag List

First 41213141516 Last

Results 131 to 140 of 157

  1. #131
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    8,263

    Default

    If anything, I see more potential conflict on Ne/Ni. I'm starting to think that I have few ways to communicate with Ni. I mean, it's up to them if they want to, and I appreciate it. But I can't do anything myself.

  2. #132
    Junior Member Alchemilla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Posts
    22

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Seymour View Post
    Okay, I'm reposting this from another forum, so be warned. This was a thread on "What pisses you off about INFJs?" This was meant to be a little cheeky, so I hope the INFJs don't take too much offense.

    Okay, one of my best friends from college is an INFJ and work closely with an INFJ. I love them to death, but they do have a few teensy little flaws...

    - They love giving unsolicited advice. They can be extremely, relentlessly nudgy. The fact that it's for your own good doesn't change this. As an INFP, I'm getting plenty of critique on what I should be doing internally, I don't need extra pressure from outside. k? thx!

    - They apparently signed up for the alternative-medicine/belief-system buffet. One of them believes in reiki, homeopathy, colored light therapy, reincarnation, herbalism, etc. The other has been a fundamentalist Christian, a rainbow family hippie, a polyamory family member, a tarot card reader, etc. I wish I could believe in five impossible things before breakfast, but I'm just not so gifted. Believing a couple of impossible things in a lifetime seems like challenge enough for me.
    .
    This really reminded me of me and my INFP friend, only in reverse. He is ALWAYS giving advice, and often the advice is strongly connected to his New Age outlook. I think he fancies himself as a guru.

  3. #133
    Vaguely Precise Seymour's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/so
    Posts
    1,565

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Alchemilla View Post
    This really reminded me of me and my INFP friend, only in reverse. He is ALWAYS giving advice, and often the advice is strongly connected to his New Age outlook. I think he fancies himself as a guru.
    I think other reports are varied as to which of the two are more likely to give advice (or believe in alternative medicine or spirituality). I suspect NFP advice is more on the order of "go with what you believe is right and is consonant with who you are" and NFJs are a bit more likely to be a more ends-oriented (though in service of a worthy goal) and to give advice about leveraging social structures. I also think we tend to hear different things as pushy—Fi pushiness and Fe pushiness come across differently.

    I suspect it was just coincidence that all three INFJs I know well turned out to be into alternative belief systems. As someone who isn't (pardon my bias here), I could see both NFPs and NFJs—two fairly idealistic types—being that way, but via slightly different means. Ni is given to seeing causal patterns in possibly unrelated data. Fi can be given to filtering conflicting (but potentially true) data out.

    By the way, by "alternative belief systems" I'm referring to some of the loonier pseudosciences and conspiracy theories, and not just having a non-mainstream religious belief or practicing meditation.

  4. #134
    Junior Member Alchemilla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Posts
    22

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Seymour View Post
    I think other reports are varied as to which of the two are more likely to give advice (or believe in alternative medicine or spirituality). I suspect NFP advice is more on the order of "go with what you believe is right and is consonant with who you are" and NFJs are a bit more likely to be a more ends-oriented (though in service of a worthy goal) and to give advice about leveraging social structures. I also think we tend to hear different things as pushy—Fi pushiness and Fe pushiness come across differently.

    I suspect it was just coincidence that all three INFJs I know well turned out to be into alternative belief systems. As someone who isn't (pardon my bias here), I could see both NFPs and NFJs—two fairly idealistic types—being that way, but via slightly different means. Ni is given to seeing causal patterns in possibly unrelated data. Fi can be given to filtering conflicting (but potentially true) data out.

    By the way, by "alternative belief systems" I'm referring to some of the loonier pseudosciences and conspiracy theories, and not just having a non-mainstream religious belief or practicing meditation.
    Hehehe. Trust me, my friend is king of the loonies

    That is an interesting point about the "go with what you believe" advice vs. focusing on achieving an end. I'm not sure where I would fit in with that, although my friend would tend to be more of a "go with what you believe so long as what you believe is what I believe."

    This can be quite stressful as his beliefs are strong and far out.

    My style of giving advice has been greatly shaped by my health condition, I'm sure. I'm disabled so more often than not I find myself the target of unwanted advice, well intentioned or otherwise (you might be amazed at how often the advising is a pure ego trip).
    It can be very demoralizing. As a result I almost always assume the other person just wants me to listen, at least at first, and so that's what I tend to do. This could be a learned trait rather than a natural one: I do plan to write a series of self help books one day for the more skeptically minded sufferer, so it's not like I'm not driven in some way to advise.

  5. #135
    Senior Member Hinastarr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    MBTI
    INFP
    Socionics
    IEI
    Posts
    116

    Default

    Without offense, unhealthy INFPs often irritate me because, based upon the one's I've met in the past, they often vary in two forms:

    a. The outwardly aloof, detached person who implodes all of his feelings inwardly and spends pretty much half their free time scorning the "conformist society" surrounding them and scoffing at you for not seeming individualistic enough. Said person is also prone to being very sensitive and aware of everything you've mentioned or said and will show their irritation at whatever you've mentioned through passive-aggressive actions that ultimately boil over and explode with an overflow of accusations of "how bad and hypocritical a person you are, because of blah, blah, blah...". It is also difficult to communicate with this type of person, because they often mask their emotions through an apathetic façade and refuse to express their concerns despite the fact that a volcanoes been waiting to erupt inside.

    b. The hypersensitive, whiny person who likes to stress that they are "unique" and too much of an idealist for this horrible conformist society of corporate workers, scoffing at the idea of people working the routine "9-5 shift". They likely have some sort of an interest in the arts, be it writing, drawing, filmmaking, or whatever, and strive to project their "vision" through said work, pompously priding themselves on how different they are from everybody else, whom they see as "boring and contrived."

    As an INFJ, I admit that I seem a bit stiffer and sensitive to outward influences that most of my INFP counterparts, who in a healthy state project a very whimsical, airy vibe as they explore different ideas with others and express their playful sense of humor, projecting a vibe that seems very easygoing and gentle, yet contains a stubbornness beneath the layers depending on what you've said and how what you've said has impacted them.

    INFJs however seem to project more of the vibe of the typical confidant, the quiet, yet insightful and reflective person who'll try to mentor you through their problems with constructive advice and reassurance, but may need a bit of coaxing to reveal their more laidback spontaneous side, seeing as they often tend to be analyzing everything and trying to discern the meaning behind it in their heads.

    I've also noted that I relate a lot more to INTPs and IxFJs than I do to most INFPs, who tend to frustrate me with their outwardly detached, aloof demeanors and inability to communicate things directly, which has led to many of my failed past friendships. Because they often don't communicate their feelings with others openly, and because I am so sensitive and quick to sense vibes of others, this tendency to withdraw from problems has led to many misconceptions and disagreements among myself and other INFPs, who've described me as seeming too high-strung and analytical, while I've accused them of seeming to dispassionate and uninvolved. INFPs seem more at ease with allowing issues to go unresolved and generally don't seem as willing as an INFJ might be to sit with you are upset to sort through your problems; rather, they seem more apt to listen quietly without interruption, yet might not always know the proper thing to say to comfort you.

  6. #136
    LadyLazarus
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hinastarr View Post

    b. The hypersensitive, whiny person who likes to stress that they are "unique" and too much of an idealist for this horrible conformist society of corporate workers, scoffing at the idea of people working the routine "9-5 shift". They likely have some sort of an interest in the arts, be it writing, drawing, filmmaking, or whatever, and strive to project their "vision" through said work, pompously priding themselves on how different they are from everybody else, whom they see as "boring and contrived."
    I'm not an INFP,but damn you got me good!

  7. #137
    I want my account deleted
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    6w5
    Posts
    401

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hinastarr View Post
    Without offense, unhealthy INFPs often irritate me because, based upon the one's I've met in the past, they often vary in two forms:

    a. The outwardly aloof, detached person who implodes all of his feelings inwardly and spends pretty much half their free time scorning the "conformist society" surrounding them and scoffing at you for not seeming individualistic enough. Said person is also prone to being very sensitive and aware of everything you've mentioned or said and will show their irritation at whatever you've mentioned through passive-aggressive actions that ultimately boil over and explode with an overflow of accusations of "how bad and hypocritical a person you are, because of blah, blah, blah...". It is also difficult to communicate with this type of person, because they often mask their emotions through an apathetic façade and refuse to express their concerns despite the fact that a volcanoes been waiting to erupt inside.
    Wow ... you've come very close to describing my INFP enneagram 9w8 partner when things aren't well in her (when she's particularly unhealthy).

    As an INFJ, I admit that I seem a bit stiffer and sensitive to outward influences that most of my INFP counterparts, who in a healthy state project a very whimsical, airy vibe as they explore different ideas with others and express their playful sense of humor, projecting a vibe that seems very easygoing and gentle, yet contains a stubbornness beneath the layers depending on what you've said and how what you've said has impacted them.
    Yes, this is a more healthy version of my INFP (except she isn't "airy," she has a more grounded feel). And for sure I seem stiffer and more sensitive to outward influences.

    ...most INFPs, who tend to frustrate me with their outwardly detached, aloof demeanors and inability to communicate things directly, which has led to many of my failed past friendships. Because they often don't communicate their feelings with others openly, and because I am so sensitive and quick to sense vibes of others, this tendency to withdraw from problems has led to many misconceptions and disagreements among myself and other INFPs, who've described me as seeming too high-strung and analytical, while I've accused them of seeming to dispassionate and uninvolved. INFPs seem more at ease with allowing issues to go unresolved
    I'm really struggling with this lately. In our case, I've assumed that my partner's tendency to withdraw from dealing with problems is as much an unhealthy enneagram 9 thing as it is an INFP thing.

    However, one thing to keep in mind about INFJs and INFPs in interaction is this: INFJs and INFPs generally don't do well together in the "in-process" stage of figuring things out. We (our two types) often come to similar/the same conclusions from completely different angles. Trying to process through and solve problems together, in dialogue, can lead to serious and generally unnecessary stress and misunderstanding just as much as not dealing with them explicitly.

    (I don't yet know what the solution is in my case, but starting to feel like something's got to give).

  8. #138
    Senor Membrane
    Join Date
    May 2008
    MBTI
    INFP
    Posts
    3,190

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hinastarr View Post
    Without offense, unhealthy INFPs often irritate me because, based upon the one's I've met in the past
    Have to say, fate has conspired you into being an instrument of synchronicity. I've left this forum ages ago, but apparently left some subscriptions alive. So, since you resurrected the dead thread, this mail hit me from the blue today as I happened to be delving into motivational/psychological issues myself, and that goes with all the intensification of meaning that you can imagine for a message that for no apparent reason just fits the moment too well and comes from a past left behind.

    I have to think on this. Your criticism isn't unfounded. I see myself there.

  9. #139
    Junior Member Cloudpuppy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    9w1
    Posts
    10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    A lot of great observations in this thread.

    I have two very close INFJ friends. I also have a number of good INFP friends as comparison points. I'm not quite sure why there is confusion between the two types other than basic introversion; to me the Fe/Fi differences pop out quite quickly, unless the INFJ doesn't have as much Fe development and then the Ni can appear Fi-ish.



    Interesting that you say this because yes I do see the INFJ like that but perhaps because of some sense of flaming impunity I have, those boundaries aren't "real" to me, more like markers of progression. I think this is maybe some type of Fe-Fe interaction and I'm not sure how to explain this, but it's the Fe way for relationships to follow some sort of linear path and to categorize the state of the relationship. Is this a date? Are we dating? OK, we're not acquaintances anymore, I can call you a friend and later on if things go well, you'll be a close friend, confidant, queue theme from Golden Girls. You're my coworker and I don't want to go there with you so I'll maintain a friendly distance.

    I'm not sure if I'm doing a good job explaining this, but depending on the where and how the relationship is filed it requires a different sort of interaction. That filing may be interpreted as a boundary or at that particular stage of the relationship Fe uses the boundary as stopgate. That stopgate basically is either open or closed, it's not ever just ajar. If it's open, it'll stay an open border (Fe not able to detach). When it's closed, well it's just closed, no problem with attachment or detachment because it never was there to begin with. I think many people complain of this type of Fe being rather empty and superficial, but once again, it's not empty to me and when I get it back from other FJs it's not offensive or weird to me.

    Personally, I appreciate those clearly marked areas. I look for them, I see them, I usually respect them (unless I don't, lol), and I expect them to be present. I think when you get beyond the superficials and all systems seem to be go but you're still feeling something is there, the boundary isn't real. I'm gonna have to break into the SAT words but to me, I perceive that boundary as a simulacrum. It's like when you're on a movie set and it seems like it's a brick wall in front of you but if you apply any sort of pressure to that brick wall you find it's really painted styrofoam. If this is Fe, it's basically Fe looking for proof that investment will be reciprocated. I don't want to speak for INFJs, but my Fe is very reciprocal and you need to be thoroughly investigated, researched, and vetted by reputable sources and until then it's very measured and tit for tat. That may sound cold to people, but I view it as a self-protective measure. I don't just see what happens or just try it out because something may develop.

    I'm not going to feed into the Rare Bird INFJ that needs special handling. Getting close to an INFJ is not some big mystery. If you encounter a person who happens to be of the INFJ type and if they're making you climb mountains and swim through ocean trenches to get their hallowed friendship, move the hell on. With my INFJ friends, I didn't work extra hard to do anything. I think we clicked and I didn't find them to be particularly closed. We moved through that Fe path actually I see them being as brazen as possible to scare people off using that brazenness as a way to distinguish who will be a true friend and who won't.

    OK, so about that stopgate. With the INFPs I know, (more NFPs than SFPs), I don't necessarily get the feeling of the stopgates and I know about the whole Fi value trouncing=saber tooth tiger and all (I'm not even quite sure what that means anymore but whatever) but the signs that I would typically look for as indicators of a deepening relationship aren't really consistent. After awhile of knowing the particular INFP you figure out what's what, but up till that point it's groping in the dark and often strikes me as being unfair and unnecessary, but I can see how to the INFP the signs I would understand would probably be interpreted as contrived.



    Yes, I remember that and don't think you were being unreasonable at all. From my personal experience, I think it's important for an FJ to have another very close FJ friend (I find that ExFJ/IxFJ pairs work better than ExFJ/ExFJ not sure about IxFJ/IxFJ) because IME another FJ won't find the level of investing in each other to be extravagant, needy, clingy, or dependent and it's expressed in a way that that two FJs in question can understand and appreciate.

    I started a thread awhile ago about FJ/FJ relationships and I'll just throw this in this thread since I've got a bunch of FJs here. I know this is going to seem very teenage-girlish but I think it's common for two FJs to click up very intensely. People call my INFJ friend and I Double and Trouble. We're inseparable even outside of work. I find that there are no boundaries between us, even when you want the safe haven of a boundary to hide beneath. And it's not even like we just sit around confirming each other's world view, there's honest feedback, i.e. "I don't think what you're doing is a good idea", "I don't think you're handling it in the right way," "I wouldn't have done that" and it does not come across as preachy or overbearing. I interpret this behavior as something a true friend does. To me, it feels like I'm never really far from her mind or thoughts so if I get a text asking me if I remembered my doctor's appointment or if I ask her did she update her resume yet to reflect a recent conversation we had, it doesn't feel claustrophobic, it feels caring.

    When either of us is laying it on too thick with the other, we have little signals that lets the other know back off and we move on without a second thought given to the exchange. I enjoy the very high level EQ we have towards each other. I find it to be a very open, honest, sensitive, caring, and supportive friendship with minimal conflict and misunderstanding. I think that if I behaved the way I do with my INFJ friend and she with me towards other people, we'd quickly get labeled bossy but that is not the case between us. Neither one of us feels the need to put ourselves on mute and we like to talk about our friendship, it's like we meta-analyze our friendship to keep it running smoothly and we enjoy doing this; it doesn't feel like work. We know it looks strange to other people but the feeling of being able to say anything and be yourself completely with another (ugliness, bitchiness, and talons included) is so refreshing that I'm totally willing to talk the hell out of it to keep it going.

    Unfortunately, I can't go into this level of detail about my INFP friends because we've never gone there with each other. The friendships don't seem to be on negotiated terms; there's no mutuality. It's either on or off and it's basically up to the INFP when it's going to be on. When they're there, everything is cool, we get along great, excellent EQ and sensitivity as well but otherwise: ????

    Which is why this makes so much sense to me:

    I have always had bittersweet relationships with INFPs. I really liked how @proteanmix put it. I also have a very close FJ friend and our friendship kinda reminds me how problematic relationships I have and had have with INFPs. It is whether on or off. And it's always up to them to decide when it's on..but when we're on, we really are ON. Other times it they can piss me off.

  10. #140
    I want my account deleted
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    6w5
    Posts
    401

    Default

    About the pattern (mentioned in a few places here) of INFJs feeling like we always have to do things on the INFP's terms ... I'm really struggling with this a lot right now. I find that when I can articulate things strongly and clearly to my INFP partner, I may be able to have a real say in the core dynamics of our interactions. But it takes me so long to figure out what "my terms" might be, and to find a way to articulate them clearly and without what she names as vagueness - it's like I can't keep up with the strength and powerful gravitational pull of her terms, which she seems to strongly project, without speaking them, almost effortlessly as a matter of simply moving through the world. The default is that I am and pretty much always have been constantly scrambling to adapt to her. As I try to adapt, her terms sort of shift and change and mutate as I am trying to figure out how to adapt. This whole situation keeps me subtly but powerfully off balance in a way that's becoming increasingly not-okay for me. I'm getting increasingly soul-tired from this process. At this point it almost sickens me sometimes, to feel so off-balance, like some aspect of my survival requires me to not keep being in this state of disorientation. But at this point I don't yet know how to get it to stop.

Similar Threads

  1. Video: Struggles of Introverted Intuitiives (INTJ, INFJ, INFP, INTP)
    By highlander in forum Typology Videos and RSS Feeds
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 03-27-2017, 04:04 PM
  2. [INFJ] INFJ-constant tug of war between liking people and needing my own space
    By Lightyear in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 24
    Last Post: 08-08-2015, 08:39 AM
  3. [INFJ] When an INFJ is past the point of caring...
    By Immaculate Cloud in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 07-03-2009, 11:53 AM
  4. [INFJ] INFJ - the importance of space?
    By janey_girl in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 31
    Last Post: 05-05-2009, 09:59 AM
  5. [INFP] INFP: Sense of Purpose?
    By Abhaya in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 24
    Last Post: 10-08-2008, 11:59 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO