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  1. #101
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nolla View Post
    I mean, that I can talk more easily about stuff if I don't have to say "I was very depressed, this is how I got better..." but can say "When people are depressed, it often helps them to.."
    That's often how I speak . I think it's Ne taking those personal Fi feelings and ideas and universalizing them. It feels far less vulnerable to make it a general statement also.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  2. #102
    Crazy Diamond Billy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by musttry View Post
    It's amazing how everything in this post rings true. Here is the situation between me (INFJ) and my INFP (ex)girlfriend:

    We started dating not long after she and her ex of many years restarted a friendship a year after they had broken up. At first I was cool with this because, having had a 7 year relationship myself and being friends with some of my exes, I know how attached we can feel to someone.

    I soon discovered that he was trying to get her back and that she was in a big emotional quagmire, not knowing how to deal with the situation. It became clear to me that she was going to have to make a decision between the two of us and so I broke it off with her and told her to let me know when she had made up her mind. I suspect that she is taking this as rejection and a lack of understanding on my part. However, in my Fe book, things need to be clear, one way or another.

    Now I'm confused. I have no idea how Fi makes such decisions. I thought it was a black and white issue with them and that they automatically felt what was right for them or not.

    Here is my question: Can Fi make a clear cut decision or not?
    Totally agree with your choice in that situation. If someone doesn't know if she wants to be in a relationship or she isn't sure of what she wants, then stay the HELL out of any relationship until you know.
    Ground control to Major Tom

  3. #103
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    "Eh, many of us are simply lazy and apprehensive. It's our faults. Don't take it personally.

    We love you, we just don't always know how to activate that love toward anything productive.

    That's why when INFJ comes in and says "Let's do something", the INFP is relieved because they don't have to make a conscious decision to do anything but go with the flow."


    For me and my best friend INFJ the bolded really rings true in the "go with the flow" and is illustrative of why my ex-husband ISTP and I had such difficulties. When my girlfriend and I get together, it's a wonderful "let's do something" and "OK, what do you want to do?" Then we happily compromise on something, both of us wanting to make the other happy. I'm so very happy (adore) someone who is open-ended, flexible, and cares about what I want as much as I care about what they want. A free-flow exchange of care and love. For my ex-husband (and not knocking ISTs here at all--it is just a trait of his), it was in essence "lets do it my way, and if you have another opinion, it's secondary and just doesn't matter." (This is certainly the way I heard it in my head). He was completely unaware of the affect this had on me.

  4. #104
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    Now I'm confused. I have no idea how Fi makes such decisions. I thought it was a black and white issue with them and that they automatically felt what was right for them or not.

    Here is my question: Can Fi make a clear cut decision or not?


    I can only say that I can make a clear cut decision, very much so. I may dwell in the feeling for a while, letting it tell me what it needs to, and then I let my Ne tell me what I need to do. Then, I act. It may take a while because I can get very caught up in feelings. Eventually, I need some tangible, outward expression, some way out for all that feeling.

  5. #105
    Yup
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    i love this thread

  6. #106
    Member monocycle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by matilda View Post
    INFJ: I really need you.
    INFP: I'm really really down today as well. Bad day bad day bad day. I'm sorry but I can't right now. I need to be alone.
    INFJ: Well you know what? If you were in my position.. I'd be there in a heartbeat.
    INFP: I know, I'm sorry. I just can't. Not today.
    INFJ: Just don't count on me helping you out when you're the one who needs me.
    INFP: ...

    I find this to be untrue.
    The truth would be if you reversed the two, IMO.
    From the One Light, the entire universe welled up. So who is good, and who is bad? -- Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Ang 1349

  7. #107
    Level 8 Propaganda Bot SpankyMcFly's Avatar
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    My first girlfriend was an INFJ who was also a HSP. I was 16 she was 22 and were together three years. We were each others first love and lost our virginity together. The love buzz lasted about a year and a half. Without getting into the details of the nature of the environmental conditioning, parental schema or societal factors each of us brought to the relationship table I can sum up the later portion of our relationship in one word tumultuous. Ok two words, immature .

    Imagine two guys going up into the air for a high five and completely missing. This happened frequently and was easy to get over when we were "in love". In the end this is what it was like from my perspective. Nothing I could say or not say would be taken well. Nothing I did or didn't do could go over well. I was constantly under a microscope and walking on eggshells. I was constantly being judged and under those conflict conditions I retreated into myself and that too was judged overtly.

    I was initially the person who always wanted to talk things out and compromise and focus our energies on positive things. After the love buzz wore off I had difficulty reestablishing that emotional connection we once had. She simply could not explain her feelings well unless it involved a judgment and a course of action. The intimacy was gone from her. I felt like there was nothing to grab onto emotionally to stabilize the relationship or myself nor to even help her. I need that connection, it strengthens me, it motivates me to continue in the face of adversity, it is the sanctuary without which I feel lost.

    This is a quote from a website about the nature the push/pull dynamic. Expectations and Hidden Issues

    "Look for the SWAT signs.

    Scorekeeping - when one or both of you are keeping track of who does what.

    Wheel Spinning - when you talk about the same problem over and over again. When an argument starts with you thinking, "Here we go again."

    Avoidance - when one or both of you are avoiding certain topics or levels of intimacy.

    Trivial Triggers - trivial issues are blown up out of all proportion. A small event triggers horrendous arguments.

    Many hidden issues arise from deeply held expectations.

    Expectations build up over a lifetime of experiences. These expectations are based in the past but operate in the present. There are three primary sources for our expectations:
    1. Our family of origin,
    2. Our previous relationships, and
    3. The culture we live in.

    Expectations are transmitted both directly by what we hear and indirectly by what we observe. A hidden issue can't get triggered in the first place unless an expectation is violated. Studies show that it's more likely that relationships will develop problems when expectations are unreasonable. Conflicts caused by unexpressed expectations are very common and unmet expectations can lead to great disappointment and frustration in your relationship. One great clue to expectations is disappointment. It's a good habit to stop a minute when you're disappointed and ask yourself what you expected. Doing this can help you to become aware of the expectations that may be unconsciously affecting your relationship.

    Be reasonable in what you expect. Be clear about what you expect. Unless you make your expectations clear, you'll have trouble working as a team. You can't work from any kind of shared perspective if you don't share your perspective."


    Couple her strong push/pull tendencies with her HSP personality and a sensitive INFP and you can imagine the conflict. Granted, I was young and had not developed an emotional shield for specific use in a romantic relationship. Additionally my perceptions were flawed as to the nature of her judgements.

    Advise for an INFJ:

    1) It is not what you say that matters but the manner in which you say it; there lies the secret of the ages. ~ William Carlos Williams

    You can be as judgmental as you want with me, if you word it right I will not only notice this (Fi) and think its endearing you are doing so but it is highly effective at 'swaying" me. I also need time to digest this information. There is nothing I abhor more than someone who is not only judgmental and argumentative but expectant that I change my mind on the spot simply because 1 person came along and felt the need to point things out and then feel the need to change me. This to me is the nature of the conflict between the types. How the INFJ expresses their judgments and expectations and how the INFP perceives it and deals with it.


    2) I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel. ~ Maya Angelou

    This is true for most people, but more so to these two types. Instead of focusing on the rightness/wrongness of this quote assume it is very much real in an INFP. This is very addressable however, prod them to talk about it after a short time has passed, and then whatever you do DON'T judge them for having done so. (really long article on emotional validation Validation) An INFP can and will forgive almost anything if given enough time and validation.

    I wanted to post more, including an advise part for INFP's but real life barges in on my thought process and I've lost the flow. Perhaps later on.
    "The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents... Some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new Dark Age. " - H.P. Lovecraft

  8. #108
    Senior Member Kastor's Avatar
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    I don't think I know or met any INFJs, but I think I'd probably drive them crazy with my lack of seeing tasks/projects to the end, how I often change plans (nothing is ever really certain for me), the chaos that is my room and work station, preffering to do things my own way instead of following particular instructions, and maybe just taking some things too lightly. INFJs might bother me by being too tense or trivial, obsessing over meticulous things, leaving decisions at just that, and not straying too far off the beaten path. But like I said, I don't think I've ever met one, so these assumptions could be very wrong.

    This reminds me of an instance with a J friend of mine (not INFJ though).
    We were playing Canasta with another friend of ours (ENFP) and I had to deal the cards. I started counting them off, dealing to the right because it was just easier to do from where I was sitting. Before I know it, my J friend is jumping my ass for not dealing the 'correct' way, which is to the left.

    CJ: 'No, you have to deal to the left.'
    Me: 'Why does it matter?'
    CJ: 'I've been in tournaments, that's just how it's done.'
    Me: 'But we're just playing casually, so does it really matter? It's just easier for me to deal right from where I'm sitting...'
    CJ: 'That's just the right way to play!'
    Caroline: 'Who gives a shit, CJ? Let's just play!'
    CJ: 'But it's not the right way... -pouts-'

    God x__x;;
    [SIGPIC]http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb37/KamikazePigeonOnFire/untitled-39.jpg[/SIGPIC]

  9. #109
    Senior Member HollyGolightly's Avatar
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    My best friend in the whole world is an INFP. She also happens to be my sister
    I love how the dynamic works. I feel I can be myself. I love how we interact, there are a lot of silences but they are never awkward as we usually have an idea of what the other one is thinking so we don't feel the need to voice it Then there are sudden bursts of deep conversation. It's a weird relationship, as we are both rather strange individuals, but it works.

    We seldom argue but when we do it's usually because I'm being difficult. I'm very private and sometimes rather aloof. I become so secretive that I can come across as cold and I will shut everyone out. I used to take it out on her as I had so much pain inside me and it would come out in little bursts and it would be directed at her. I didn't mean it, but I was wrong to do that. She would be greatly upset at my unfairness and would just say one or two things but they would have a real impact. Then she would get it out of me, and I'd tell her what was bothering me and apologise profusely for being such a bitch. She would have a calming affect on me and be really supportive.

    I'm very structured and determined. I see things through to the end. She's apathetic and lazy...well it appears that way to me because of my nature. I feel I have to give her a kick up the arse to get moving. This sometimes annoys her but it can also be very good for her.

    I'm not as laid back as she is so she has to calm me down. I get stressed and uptight and she acts as my chill pill

    She's very agreeable and conflict avoidant. If I piss her off she doesn't really raise the issue so sometimes problems are just put on the shelf. I usually being stuff up and although I don't want to start an argument (I hate conflict too) I think she sometimes feels I am.

    She hates critisism. Even the constructive kind. It really offends her so I have to be careful. And of course I always want to help so sometimes I can't resist pointing out ways she can improve. She hates me for that ;P

    I'm extremely protective. People often take advantage of her good nature, which pisses me off. There have been so many times I've got into an argument with someone who has treated her like shit. I fly into such a rage...it's totally out of character. NOBODY MESSES WITH MY SISTER. I think sometimes she feels I go overboard as usually I am more upset by the situation than she is.

    I'm kinda bossy Sometimes she likes this as she likes to go with the flow. But sometimes I annoy her, as I think I know best and I can be a little unfair sometimes. She hates unfairness, it's probably her pet peeve.

    We have the same sense of humour. We laugh for hours about things. I can always cheer her up and she me as we have many inside jokes
    We get on pretty well overall. I know people throw the term best friend around a lot, but she really is my best friend. And she always will be
    "Dad I can't feel my legs."

    "That's because you don't have any arms."

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpankyMcFly View Post
    Lots of great stuff
    I didn't read the entire article yet you linked, but at the bottom is what struck me at home the most. Beautifully worded, the things I felt and suffered. (I'm an INFP only child to an INFJ mother)

    Will You Please Just Listen?

    A Child's Plea to Adults

    When I ask you to listen and you start giving advice, you have not done what I have asked.

    When I ask you to listen and you start telling me why I shouldn't feel the way I do, you are invalidating my feelings.

    When I ask you to listen and you start trying to solve my problems, I feel underestimated.

    When I ask you to listen, it does not mean I am helpless. I may be faltering, depressed or discouraged, but I am not helpless.

    When I ask you to listen and you do things which I can and need to do for myself, you hurt my self-esteem.

    But when you accept the way I feel, then I don't need to spend time and energy trying to defend myself or convince you, and I can focus on figuring out why I feel the way I feel and what to do about it.

    And when I do that, I don't need advice, just support, trust, and encouragement.

    Please remember that what you think are irrational feelings always make sense if you take time to listen and understand me.

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