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  1. #91
    Revelation Lauren Ashley's Avatar
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    Hmmm...I can and can't relate to both sides of this. I don't see myself in the descriptions of INFJs being so invested in helping other people that it becomes burdensome; this may sound selfish but myself comes first and I don't ever remember getting hints from anyone that I'm being too pushy. Maybe these INFJs are more extraverted than I?... Then I can also relate to not always being around, which is being attributed to INFPs. I just don't feel the need to always be connected to the people around me at all times. Sometimes I go into my "hole" and don't come out for a while and I'm sure this frustrates some people.

    As for growth of self vs. growth of others, I think I focus on the former much more than the latter.

  2. #92
    Rubber Nipple Salesperson ladypinkington's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Outsider View Post
    Well, I may let a person in these couple of levels that you mentioned, but it's not that they've figure me out, I simply won't let anyone closer than that.
    My emotions and my inner world are my own, and I feel no need to share them with others.

    I'm always willing to listen to others though, but I'm definitely not likely to show initiative.
    I didn't mean figuring out= I meant that they can be friends and have a relationship with you without any feeling that there is advancement in the relationship. I need to see where things are going and have some indication that there is movement and exchange- I don't understand someone wanting to spend time with me and enjoying me without some sharing going on= why spend your time with someone you don't feel you can open up to?

    I guess what I am trying to say is that it can feel like there isn't any way to know where you are going- what is going on currently even. I need to know something is happening.
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  3. #93
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the state i am in View Post
    we are judgy in the sense that we, like intjs (and intps) are HIGHLY impatient. this is a principal source of social frustration, and why we seem so j. fucking hurry up and let's get going! we run at a quicker rate and get burnt out more easily than infps, which makes us act like pricks sometimes.
    Yeah, I can be impatient. It doesn't take me long to get ready, and when I want to do something, I want to DO it!!! Hurry up, let's go, march 1, 2, 3, 4...haha.

    infjs hold back a lot, sometimes for fear/anxiety of what will happen with said participation, and sometimes because they are unsure of how they will be received. it is future-focused (protecting the future by avoiding fuckups). feeling like the other person is hearing them in EXACTLY the right way is soooo crucial for an infj to disclose important details that involve vulnerability. i only speak these things when a) i'm with someone who gets me (rare!) or b) i feel so fucking sky-high open that i love everyone and will sow my seeds freely with everyone.
    True for me

    sometimes we will be a bit strategic, too, and disclose to promote someone else opening up to us. but we do see potential that we want to set free. my interest in setting people free is almost exclusively focused on people who i value, whose insight and talents i recognize as helpful to the people like me of this world.
    Yeah, I admit to being strategic sometimes. Also, to add to this train of thought, I will sometimes not disclose simply because I don't see the person as someone I really want to be close to - so I'll keep the relationship more 'formal'. So in that sense I could be seen as being more 'regulating' in the nature of my relationships/acquaintances, in terms of where I want them to go, and where I don't want them to go. Really depends on the person.

    i'll listen to those who i meet and know and become acquainted with and try to help, but serious and difficult problems with additional energies expended are reserved for the people who are special to me..
    Yep!

    Oh, and I don't invest deeply in others if I don't really value them and the relationship; so an 'investment' where it becomes a burden to me seems kind of contradictory -- i.e. I wouldn't be investing if I viewed the act as a 'burden'.
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

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  4. #94
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post

    Interesting that you say this because yes I do see the INFJ like that but perhaps because of some sense of flaming impunity I have, those boundaries aren't "real" to me, more like markers of progression. I think this is maybe some type of Fe-Fe interaction and I'm not sure how to explain this, but it's the Fe way for relationships to follow some sort of linear path and to categorize the state of the relationship. Is this a date? Are we dating? OK, we're not acquaintances anymore, I can call you a friend and later on if things go well, you'll be a close friend, confidant, queue theme from Golden Girls. You're my coworker and I don't want to go there with you so I'll maintain a friendly distance.

    I'm not sure if I'm doing a good job explaining this, but depending on the where and how the relationship is filed it requires a different sort of interaction. That filing may be interpreted as a boundary or at that particular stage of the relationship Fe uses the boundary as stopgate. That stopgate basically is either open or closed, it's not ever just ajar. If it's open, it'll stay an open border (Fe not able to detach). When it's closed, well it's just closed, no problem with attachment or detachment because it never was there to begin with. I think many people complain of this type of Fe being rather empty and superficial, but once again, it's not empty to me and when I get it back from other FJs it's not offensive or weird to me.

    Personally, I appreciate those clearly marked areas.
    I look for them, I see them, I usually respect them (unless I don't, lol), and I expect them to be present.



    I'm not going to feed into the Rare Bird INFJ that needs special handling. Getting close to an INFJ is not some big mystery. If you encounter a person who happens to be of the INFJ type and if they're making you climb mountains and swim through ocean trenches to get their hallowed friendship, move the hell on. With my INFJ friends, I didn't work extra hard to do anything. I think we clicked and I didn't find them to be particularly closed. We moved through that Fe path actually I see them being as brazen as possible to scare people off using that brazenness as a way to distinguish who will be a true friend and who won't.
    If people are having to climb mountains with me, it can mean I don't really want to have the close/deep relationship with them that they might be trying to seek out of me.
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  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    .

    I do want to "share my soul" and all that jazz, but as other posters have said, it takes a great amount of trust to get there, and most people never will.



    I always, always, always fight for what I believe in. There's a good chance you don't know what is really important to these INFPs. Our values are often not what most other people value. Community ideas of "success" are often not important to us, or at least not enough to violate other values to get there.

    Both of these things you said - I do share my soul, very much indeed, but not just to anyone who wants to sit around and talk about it. That feels fake and forced to me. I usually only want to do that in certain situations, or with people who I feel "get me."

    And I, too, ALWAYS fight for what I believe in. I think it just might be a matter of perception. I'm probably not going to be the person organizing lots of special interest groups (ha ha) but if I feel strongly about something, I will battle for it like a crazy person.

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mystic Tater View Post
    Eh, many of us are simply lazy and apprehensive. It's our faults. Don't take it personally.

    We love you, we just don't always know how to activate that love toward anything productive.

    That's why when INFJ comes in and says "Let's do something", the INFP is relieved because they don't have to make a conscious decision to do anything but go with the flow.
    OK -- silly me. Isn't that the whole point of Typology -- I shouldn't have assumed anything about what was going on with them based on how I act and/or respond in such situations.

  7. #97
    Member monocycle's Avatar
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    My "BFF 4 LYFE" is an INFJ. I love him to death.

    Here are a few TEENSY (and I mean teensy) problems we've had:

    We usually have a horrible knack for closing ourselves off when the other wants to be sociable, so that can be somewhat frustrating. It can be quite unequivocally annoying for me because I'm a whiny wart and automatically come to the worst conclusions when he doesn't return phone calls the same day.

    He usually takes it in stride when I don't talk to him for a while, but we've had moments where he's come completely out of the blue and has expressed feelings that I haven't been there for him. These instances are few and far between.

    Another problem would be me being more spontaneous and him being more "now we should think this through".

    He's way more philosophical than I am. I've sat through conversations where he's talked about some philosophical theory, and I find that my brain melts into mush. One situation comes to mind when he was talking to an INTJ friend of his about how there is a "perfect" everything that exists on a plane somewhere else. I didn't get it, and I didn't see the point in discussing it. Who cares that the cup I'm holding isn't actually a cup (it could be a bowl or a vase) and that the "perfect" cup exists in an alternate reality?

    Anyway, whenever we DO come to a point where we clash heavily, we are able to patch things up in less than 24 hours.

    I'm surprised to see a few posts where INFPs don't get along well with INFJs. For me, the INTJ is the one I find rolling my eyes at, but I try to love them anyway.
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  8. #98
    Junior Member Claide's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by monocycle View Post
    My "BFF 4 LYFE" is an INFJ. I love him to death.

    Here are a few TEENSY (and I mean teensy) problems we've had:

    We usually have a horrible knack for closing ourselves off when the other wants to be sociable, so that can be somewhat frustrating. It can be quite unequivocally annoying for me because I'm a whiny wart and automatically come to the worst conclusions when he doesn't return phone calls the same day.

    He usually takes it in stride when I don't talk to him for a while, but we've had moments where he's come completely out of the blue and has expressed feelings that I haven't been there for him. These instances are few and far between.

    Another problem would be me being more spontaneous and him being more "now we should think this through".

    He's way more philosophical than I am. I've sat through conversations where he's talked about some philosophical theory, and I find that my brain melts into mush. One situation comes to mind when he was talking to an INTJ friend of his about how there is a "perfect" everything that exists on a plane somewhere else. I didn't get it, and I didn't see the point in discussing it. Who cares that the cup I'm holding isn't actually a cup (it could be a bowl or a vase) and that the "perfect" cup exists in an alternate reality?

    Anyway, whenever we DO come to a point where we clash heavily, we are able to patch things up in less than 24 hours.

    I'm surprised to see a few posts where INFPs don't get along well with INFJs. For me, the INTJ is the one I find rolling my eyes at, but I try to love them anyway.
    I agree completely, Brandon. But that's only natural, seeing as I'm the INFJ you're talking about.

    I've scanned this thread, and it has helped me understand a couple things about myself that I can work on. So here's my input on the INFJ/INFP points of contention:

    I can be very disconnected sometimes. I don't necessarily see this as a "flaw" so much as a reality of who I am. I've been in situations before where I've tried very hard not to seem emotionally disconnected. Of course, this is only possible because I'm quite aware of the disconnectedness, and in those instances, it frustrates me. Advice to anyone affected by this strange INFJ aloofness: do not interpret it as apathy. Nothing is farther from our intentions, and (most of the time) nothing is farther from true.

    Sometimes I give advice when perhaps it's not what I ought to be doing. This is something that Brandon can probably attest to. Occasionally, I feel like I'm being patronizing or ineffective, and when that IS the case, I try to shift from "advice giving" mode to "empathizing" mode. I don't give advice because I think anything superior of myself; I give advice because I genuinely want to help. I could see where this can get difficult - sometimes the INFJ might answer his fellow INFPs revelations of conflict with intellectual responses instead of emotional ones. I think there might be a two-way solution to this; both parties need to communicate better. For instance, the INFJ needs to be more sensitive to the INFPs purpose of opening up to them. If the INFP seems emotionally conflicted at all when they're opening up, most likely the INFP isn't interested in advice - they're looking for emotional support. The rule should be that we INFJs shouldn't give advice unless it's asked for. In the same way, maybe the INFP could flag the INFJ when talking about personal subjects. Something like "I just need to get this out" or "I need somebody to listen..." would probably be enough to get the attention of the INFJs Ni.

    I've read a few comments about INFJs being impatient or angry. I don't relate to those criticisms much at all. I have many vices, but I would say impatience and anger are emotions very foreign to me. I'm probably the most patient, coolheaded person I know :-p.

    INFPs, like INFJs, are complex and often misunderstood creatures. I think this is one of the reasons why we get along so well.

  9. #99
    Senior Member Chloe's Avatar
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    i never yet met an INFJ in RL that I liked, I mean, they are okay, but we can't be real friends, I couldnt respect them. We seem opposite, speaking totally different language, different perspectives. I actually more like Se doms, or Fe doms.
    ENFJs I love.
    Types I really can't get along with are SJs (especially STJs) and INFJs.

    I imagine I could love INFJs after getting used to them but it'd always be hard work.

  10. #100
    Senor Membrane
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    I can't believe this thread is still getting so much valuable input. I think this is one of my all-time favorite threads. I hope I am not repeating anyone's thoughts (including mine), I don't remember the whole thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by runvardh View Post
    Strange, I've typically tried to solve my own problems first before cracking and seeing if others can help. However, when it comes to others having problems, I've had to talk myself out of helping due to them often dragging me into their shit pile with them instead of wanting a way out. I wish I could help people, but people need to want out first and I need to get my shit together...
    Yeah. My life philosophy (one of them) is that you can't help people. This has exceptions, like indirect "helping" coming out of your person without words, or helping people that are very close to your own "level" (yeah, sounds very much like Nietzsche, but I haven't got any better word). But usually you just get dragged down, or they get mad. This means all the people needing help, not just INFJs.

    Quote Originally Posted by ladypinkington View Post
    The areas of hardship in friendship I have come across with INFP's
    is that I do love people wanting to look into your soul and know who you are- and INFP's don't seem to want to partake of those kind of conversations much.

    It is like I get offended at the thought of someone enjoying my company but not wanting to know anything about me and my inner soul and they get offended that I can't enjoy their company without wanting to look into their inner soul,lol. Fi vs Fe of course.
    I take part in conversations like that as long as you do it without talking about me I mean, that I can talk more easily about stuff if I don't have to say "I was very depressed, this is how I got better..." but can say "When people are depressed, it often helps them to.." I'm getting used to the line "I know how you think, but I don't know any facts about your past." Well, that is because my past was painful and I see that my pain was an overreaction. I am shamed of what I was but also about how I reacted to it, and I think that I am responsible for the things that went wrong in the first place. And, I am going to sort it all out before talking about it. So, it's not really a combination that makes me want to share, and I don't like to be the one to ruin the mood with depressing stuff.

    Quote Originally Posted by JivinJeffJones View Post
    Personally I'm all about getting inside the inner world of others and seeing where they're coming from and what makes them tick. But I also do respect their privacy (possibly too much at times) and hate to think I might be prying. So I try to make it as easy and natural for confiding to take place as possible, and leave it at that. They'll tell me when they're ready is my motto, mostly. And if they don't tell me, they probably have a good reason.
    My motto as well...

    Quote Originally Posted by ladypinkington View Post
    I didn't mean figuring out= I meant that they can be friends and have a relationship with you without any feeling that there is advancement in the relationship. I need to see where things are going and have some indication that there is movement and exchange- I don't understand someone wanting to spend time with me and enjoying me without some sharing going on= why spend your time with someone you don't feel you can open up to?
    The word "advancement" is foreign to me, as I see friendship as something that flies upwards and then usually turns down when you got what you were looking for. There is a peak that must be maintained or else. Or course this peak is an illusion as it cannot be reached if you are to remain friends. I think it is brutal honesty, kind of ultimate intimacy. The limit is a reality, in a way, and when you get closer, the advancement becomes eventually so little that it is almost impossible to see it (that's why I don't call it advancement at that point), but you need to keep doing it in order not to start the decline. So, the goal is to set the goal too high to ever get there.

    Did that make any sense? I think that is the only way I can interpret our different perceptions as two sides of a coin. It's like, when it gets so much more unlikely to get any higher, I consider the friendship "complete" in a way, I don't feel the need to dig anything more out of the person. And this happens when I feel like I understand them. I mean, there has to be a limit of how deep you can dig before you hollow me out.

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