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  1. #1
    Senior Member nynesneg's Avatar
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    Arrow ENFs communication pros IRL? Not really.

    Can't you just understand me? *pulls out hair*

    Supposedly as ENFx we are natural geniuses when it comes to communication, and understanding people. In fact, according to type we are so charismatic and intuitive that we can easily convince people of what we think.

    Do you ever have difficulty...

    - Articulating your point of view in a debate. You initially speak it, then can't explain what makes perfect sense in your brain to the other person so they see your logic side of the argument. The argument seems like a waste of time, so you end up just shutting up and pretending to agree.

    - Explaining a concept to someone else, a situation, or your logic for something. It makes sense in your brain, but getting the point out is difficult and you ramble then have to ask, "Did that make sense, answer your question, etc?"

    - Reading another person's feelings is a piece of cake for you. But the whole picture...

    - People tell you, "Sometimes it's as if we are speaking a totally different language." or "We communicate and think completely differently." when you thought everything was fine and you were trying to understand.(from a friend pov, or even a teacher/assignment pov)




    I just hate it when I spend 6x the energy on a school assignment as the average person, and get a lousy grade on it because I didn't understand exactly what the teacher wanted. I pride myself in doing really good work, and go the extra mile to make it very professional. Seems that either the assignment ends up in the category of "Wow, this is the best I've ever seen.", or a C grade.

    As a female I don't understand most women, beyond casual aquaintances. We just don't relate.

  2. #2
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Most of this sounds like total lack of Te, which makes sense when you look at your functions. There's communication issues at times between sensors and intuitives, so Ns may sometimes feel like they're speaking a different language from the majority of people.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  3. #3
    Senior Member nynesneg's Avatar
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    Anybody know which WalMart I can buy a box of telepathy at like in Star Trek? Or perhaps I could just become a "changeling" and link with people so they magically understand what I'm trying to say.

    Don't get me wrong I *can* understand people's feelings easily, I can read your mood instantly, if you're having a good/bad day. I can be charismatic, friendly, and make you feel like I genuinely care, because I do. But there is alot more than that to communicating!

    If I need to develop my Te, that doesn't make sense. The description says they organize and compartmentalize their world etc. I am very detail oriented, organized, I live by lists and sticky notes. I write out extensive project plans.

  4. #4
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Yeah, I really think that making statements like that in type descriptions don't help people of a particular type who aren't whiz kids at such things. Most traits assigned to specific types tend be teachable and acquired skills. There may be a natural proclivity but it's like a diamond in the rough; it needs to be cut and polished, it needs to be accessed.

    For me, I have this very bullish attitude that it's possible for me to communicate with the most people in some way or on some level so I don't really accept defeat in this area, I just figure I have to find another way in. It also depends on the person you're communicating with, you're not the only factor involved. This is often an exercise in frustration. I think it's best to be able to identify which circumstances and situations are the ones where you can press forward and which ones you're just an idiot banging your bloody forehead against a wall.

    Realizing that you can't make someone receptive to what you have to say or impart to them is something that helps relieve the burden of being some kind of super-communicator. Some people aren't open...and then on top of that should they be? It depends on the situation. Some people will be receptive to some ideas in some situations and not to others.

    There are people I don't like to communicate with because we're on such a different wavelength that all but the most superficial level of communication is possible. But even in those situations, I still have a strongly persistent feeling that I just haven't figured out how, so it's not impossible.

    I don't believe the whole N/S communication problem or that this is something that can be explained through typological functions. One of the things that I incorporated into my worldview is something I learned in English 101. It's an audience analysis which can be translated from written communication to interpersonal relationships.

    I've thought about this a lot so I may write more later.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  5. #5
    Senior Member Clonester's Avatar
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    I found the first three things you highlighted in bold to be things I'm good at. And I do find other ENFP's to be good at it. But it probably is all about practice. As for your fourth point, I also found some teachers appreciated my insight while others did not.

    But communication comes in different flavors so so some types are good at some forms of communication and bad at others.
    ENFP Male: E-74% N-95% F-58% P-84% 3w2
    "I feel there are two people inside me - me and my intuition. If I go against her, she'll screw me every time, and if I follow her, we get along quite nicely." -Kim Basinger

  6. #6
    Senior Member nynesneg's Avatar
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    Yeah, I really think that making statements like that in type descriptions don't help people of a particular type who aren't whiz kids at such things.

    For me, I have this very bullish attitude that it's possible for me to communicate with the most people in some way or on some level so I don't really accept defeat in this area, I just figure I have to find another way in.

    Some people will be receptive to some ideas in some situations and not to others.
    Well yeah, I don't believe I need to convince everyone of my point of view. What I meant was I have trouble conveying my logical argument in a way that makes sense to the other person. I explain my opinion then they basically go, "Huh? That doesn't invalidate my argument at all.".

    I feel like generally I'm pretty good at communicating, I make friends easily, etc etc.. But I've just noticed some particular frustrations in the areas above and wondered if anyone else has had the same problem.


    I found the first three things you highlighted in bold to be things I'm good at. And I do find other ENFP's to be good at it.
    It is weird. The Te/S point makes some sense, because it's like I'm really good at communicating in some areas and just don't get it in others. But I'm suprised nobody else has said they relate. I'm good at sales and communication in general, so it really suprises me to have several people in the last six months say we just communicate on totally different wavelengths, etc etc. And I tend to lose my train of thought / have trouble articulating exactly the logic of what I'm thinking if I'm trying to say something important to me.

  7. #7
    Member MmmCrazy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nynesneg View Post
    Well yeah, I don't believe I need to convince everyone of my point of view. What I meant was I have trouble conveying my logical argument in a way that makes sense to the other person. I explain my opinion then they basically go, "Huh? That doesn't invalidate my argument at all.".

    I feel like generally I'm pretty good at communicating, I make friends easily, etc etc.. But I've just noticed some particular frustrations in the areas above and wondered if anyone else has had the same problem.
    I do! It's awful. I used to debate with an INTJ friend all the time and most of the time he just completely ignored all of my arguments and dismissed them as being irrational when they were completely rational to me. His favorite thing to say was that I was "generalizing". I can see generalizing being a problem when you're talking about a whole race of people or something (because then that would be racism) but when just trying to make a hypothetical point, some assumptions have to be made, am I right?

    Sometimes I wanted to shout, "Why do you think I'm arguing this point if I don't believe it's rational?!"

  8. #8
    Senior Member Scott N Denver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nynesneg View Post
    Anybody know which WalMart I can buy a box of telepathy at like in Star Trek? Or perhaps I could just become a "changeling" and link with people so they magically understand what I'm trying to say.

    Don't get me wrong I *can* understand people's feelings easily, I can read your mood instantly, if you're having a good/bad day. I can be charismatic, friendly, and make you feel like I genuinely care, because I do. But there is alot more than that to communicating!

    If I need to develop my Te, that doesn't make sense. The description says they organize and compartmentalize their world etc. I am very detail oriented, organized, I live by lists and sticky notes. I write out extensive project plans.
    Quote Originally Posted by MmmCrazy View Post
    I do! It's awful. I used to debate with an INTJ friend all the time and most of the time he just completely ignored all of my arguments and dismissed them as being irrational when they were completely rational to me. His favorite thing to say was that I was "generalizing". I can see generalizing being a problem when you're talking about a whole race of people or something (because then that would be racism) but when just trying to make a hypothetical point, some assumptions have to be made, am I right?

    Sometimes I wanted to shout, "Why do you think I'm arguing this point if I don't believe it's rational?!"
    I'm an INF not an ENF, but I've had TREMENDOUS problems communicating with NTJ's, and once in a blue moon with some particular S. Most S's I seem to communicate well with though. I take pride in knowing that the NTJ's that I have communication problems with point out how other people also have issues understanding them, but then the NTJ often writes it off as "other people are too stupid to understand me. Those idiots". I've gotten quite sick of hearing that from various NTJ's over the years

    I've had LOTS of people tell me I communicate clearly and teach well. Some people are just so into their own world/thoughts/whatever that its hard for effective communication to occur in either direction.

  9. #9
    Senior Member boondocked's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott N Denver View Post
    Some people are just so into their own world/thoughts/whatever that its hard for effective communication to occur in either direction.
    A great point. Many people listen only to respond. They are actively building their next argument in their head while ostensibly giving you air time. Listening has to be active in order for them to grasp what you're saying, especially if they aren't the same personality type. Maybe these people just aren't making the effort.



    I've never had a huuugely rough time with arguing, but maybe that's because I'm low on the eff (for an ENeff-er, anyway). My bigger problem has been realizing what people are feeling during the heat of an argument. It's like that skill just goes on vacay and I'm only brain. My ex called it the freezer effect. And then I emerge on the other side, warm and fluffy and freshly baked.


  10. #10
    Senior Member Rachelinpa's Avatar
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    yeah, i think i get what you mean... and this is another reason why i appreciate other Ns so much. they "get" me like i "get" them--i don't have to break everything down into concrete terms or start listing a million details to prove i'm right or that my argument is valid. on the occasion where my ST friends have run into a wall in explaining something to me, i just tell them to toss it out there and we'll figure out what it means when it's still in the air. unfortunately, when i am the one tossing stuff out there to figure out the meaning, i'm usually trying to explain it at the same time which makes me look inarticulate or like i don't know what i'm talking about. additionally, i have no help from them in figuring it out and they just stare at me blankly like i'm from some other planet. thankfully, i'm funny... so that helps... at least in the sense that they forgive me... but sometimes it's annoying being seen as a ditz just because i process and deliver differently.

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