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  1. #21
    Senior Member JivinJeffJones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uberfuhrer View Post
    How about Ralph Wiggum and Millhouse? ENFP and INFP, respectively.
    I dunno why people think Millhouse is an INFP.

  2. #22
    *ears perk up* wolfmaiden14's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    What I and my few NF friends run into is not so much that we lack intelligence, but we think weird. Things that are really obvious to us seem profound and deep to many people, but things that are obvious to most people can take us a very long time to figure out and in the meantime, we are stepping off a cliff over and over.
    Quote Originally Posted by faith View Post
    You nailed it for me. I was just about to post something to this effect, but you said it much better. I often feel stupid because it takes me years to figure out things that other people seem to discover at age 7.
    I third this!! I am SURROUNDED by people who just don't see where I come from with many things, and that think me idiotic for not picking up quickly on the same things they do. And I admit, I can be a real big ditz a lot of the time. My Dad and step-mom called me stupid. My local friends shake their heads and go "Oh, Rachel. What will we do with you?" My Anime/Gaming convention friends perpetually tease me for being a "n00b." I call myself a moron. XD

    I just can't escape it! That's also why a friend I made at college means the world to me. We sit and talk of philosophy and self improvement and he constantly tells me "You're a genius" and "How do you do it?!" (referring to my empathy in putting words to his feelings.) It makes me feel not totally incompetent. <3
    Forming characters! Whose? Our own or others? Both. And in that momentous fact lies the peril and responsibility of our existence. - Elihu Burritt

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  3. #23
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by faith View Post
    You nailed it for me. I was just about to post something to this effect, but you said it much better. I often feel stupid because it takes me years to figure out things that other people seem to discover at age 7.
    I could not figure out how to turn the tv on till 1st grade, I use to get made fun of for it by my brother.

  4. #24
    RETIRED CzeCze's Avatar
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    "To answer the question: I'm very sure that NF intelligence is not measurable by traditional IQ tests. To me, it seems to be more emotional and social intelligence than anything else."

    Good point.

    From NF descriptions, I started to wonder if 'intelligence' and personality type were connected. For some types it describes them as "being good at just about anything" etc.

    But that is a good point.

    First, "intelligence" is hard to define let alone test for. So many people debate it and there are so many theories. I think what personality tests show more than 'level of intelligence' is 'FOCUS and EXPRESSION of intelligence'.

    For ENFPs, that would be intelligence about the inner motivations of peopel and group dynamics.

    On the flip, ever meet a dumb INTP/ENTP? Hee hee. NT's and their brainy hypotheses.

    I think with NT's again, it's more about HOW and WHERE their intelligence is focused and expressed. My NT friends love debating and keep taking side points from our convos and spinning them off into ever more obscure tangential debates. Lucky for them I like to shoot the breeze and debate anything so I can follow this, but I think other less cerebral or point focused peopel would find this annoying.

    Are you automatically an intelligent person if you can keep a debate going or follow Parliametnary Style Debate? I did debate for a second in college and with that line of thinking -- everyone who does debate is intelligent. I would say in a general sense maybe, but any more intelligent than peopel who CAN'T follow that line of 'logical reasoning'? No. NT's or 'rationals' or 'scientists' are very data and knowledge focused, but it's very possible that they are not actually that intelligent. So they are always finding incorrect conclusions or not fully understanding the theories they debate. It's also possilbe for someone to be highly intelligent in test-verified parameters but not only waste away their intelligence but just make stupid life choices and do things that don't seem to make sense to anyone observing.

    So, yeah, we have to define what we mean by "intelligence" before talking about it.

  5. #25
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    I think as a generalization people tend to overestimate the intelligence of NT's and underestimate the intelligence of NF's. On intelligence tests they essentially score the same, but in RL people often don't place enough value on the ideas of NF's as compared to the ideas of NT's.
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  6. #26
    Senior Member xNFJiminy's Avatar
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    Every type is relatively unintelligent in some way or other, or rather, is liable to neglect certain cognitive skills. NFs seem to have the worst factual memory and grip on reality. I've known some NFs including myself, who seem 'really unintelligent' to some people for these reasons. As for IQ tests, N is about frequently playing with abstract concepts, not necessarily being able to reason with them accurately when the situation calls for it, and not necessarily in an intelligent way, although I suppose it may improve such reasoning over time, hence any correlation.

    Now it's been brought up... why are so many threads about intelligence? Does that say something about Western culture, or something else? There aren't many threads about what affects and predicts happiness or morality, but lots about issues surrounding cognition. I don't mind, I'm interested in that too, I'm just curious.

  7. #27
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xNFJiminy View Post
    Now it's been brought up... why are so many threads about intelligence? Does that say something about Western culture, or something else? There aren't many threads about what affects and predicts happiness or morality, but lots about issues surrounding cognition. I don't mind, I'm interested in that too, I'm just curious.
    It's a cornerstone of Ns, unfortunately. The most common stereotype is that N = smart. With a dominance of Ns on the board, the tendency is to grab these kinds of topics.

    (You can even chart how much IQ is talked about before and after I eventually posted the backing of the N= smart bit. Everyone is biased and it's the only reason why that topic comes up so often.)

    You'd likely see a similar effect if there was a dominance of Js (ie: work ability) or something similar that has a very defined advantage.

  8. #28
    Senior Member xNFJiminy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    It's a cornerstone of Ns, unfortunately. The most common stereotype is that N = smart. With a dominance of Ns on the board, the tendency is to grab these kinds of topics.

    (You can even chart how much IQ is talked about before and after I eventually posted the backing of the N= smart bit. Everyone is biased and it's the only reason why that topic comes up so often.)

    You'd likely see a similar effect if there was a dominance of Js (ie: work ability) or something similar that has a very defined advantage.
    Probably truth in that, but then why is the same thing not seen around Introversion? Both I and N are often seen as predicting intelligence, introversion even outside of MBTI theory, and Introverts and Ns are both seen as more often alienated by society, introverts probably more so. There's an Introvert majority here by far. Yet most of the discussion about intelligence focuses on N. So I think there must be more to it. Would an ISxx dominated board focus on intelligence in the same way? If it's just about stereotypes and numbers, you'd expect so. I don't know if that would be the case or not but I suspect not because here N is brought up more than I, even though there are more Sensors than Extraverts (I think...)

  9. #29
    Senior Member Littlelostnf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by faith View Post
    You nailed it for me. I was just about to post something to this effect, but you said it much better. I often feel stupid because it takes me years to figure out things that other people seem to discover at age 7.
    Yup Cafe said it no need for me to say more.
    for my life is slowed up by thought and the need to understand what I am living.

  10. #30
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    My room mate recently tested as INFJ but I suspect she's more ISFJ. She doesn't seem to have common sense, if were basing intelligent on common sense. Then she's a moron. Then again I thin after the tenth time of trying you should be able to use the pass to get on the train (she couldn't insert the right way, she had every way but the correct way.) I finally pointed out that arrows actaully mean something. Then she told me how she got on the train going to wrong way and ended up in the suburbs, I mean it takes about an hour any line to get to the suburbs, and they announce it every stop this is a "northbound redline train to howard"

    Also very into fashion, and tends to believe what other's tell her. Hell she wears heels to walk around chicago then complains how her feet hurt. And when you're like then don't wear heels, she's like well then I won't look good and everyone will notice. I'm like no one will care. Or very few people.

    Or maybe I'm mis typed as an ISFP if so disregard this post.
    If she didn't notice the arrow on the ticket in all that time, I would think she is an N.

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