[NF] NFs with NFs

[SheWaits]

And I don't personally relate to the social etiquette concept. I mean, I believe in being respectful and tactful, but I'm definitely not a dominant Fe and don't relate to many of the more tangible, Fe-dom aspects of Fe - hostessing, making sure everyone in a group is being attended to, etc.

Edit: I also think there are many dimensions of Fe. Your more tangible, social-etiquette/cultural 'rules' one tends to be what most people associate with Fe, and it is why Fe can get such a bad rep. There's also the dimension of 1:1 interaction with another and how that dynamic works - communication style, *active* listening (something I don't think NFP's do quite so well), questioning, and really attuning yourself to the other person and putting your own beliefs/reactions on the back burner as they don't really apply to how the other person might operate; adjusting communication style as necessary. And, there are other aspects of Fe I'm sure, but those are the two at the forefront of my mind right now.

Those are the differences between the I and the E of the NFJ equation. ENFJs are more attuned to group dynamics, hosting, the bigger picture, the greater good, etc. While INFJs are more interested in one on one, personal needs of other people.

 

[sculpting]

What don't you understand?

regarding ENFJs: I find I frustrate them and they frustrate me. Before I understood Fe vs Fi, I would think we were friends at first and then I would have to withdraw as I would make them very angry. I find the few ENFJs I have interacted with to be very hard to logically discuss an issue with. They also pop out with really offensive stuff sometimes-unintentionally. Jung saw this and said it was the inferior Te peeking through. I had lunch with an ENFJ the other day, and I could not figure out what to say. I was trying very hard not be be Fi centric and I found I was at a loss for words. I felt like she was prying as she kept asking questions about me. So then I started mirroring her questions. (I I I I I I I I , Fi is so very self centric....) She wanted to make me join social groups as she felt we all need them for support. I explained I am often happiest alone.

I respect they are awesome folks though and I want to understand how to improve the way I communicate with them.

I see Ne as breadth and Fi as depth. When focusing on a particular issue I can definitely see Fi as more apparent. But yeah, the use of auxiliary is always more conscious if you ask me.

Hmm I think I do know what Fi is though. And I can clearly differentiate it from Ne. I use Ne to constantly rebuild my values, but I also know the criteria they need to conform to (Fi). Fi is simply congruence irrespective of context.

I default to NeTe, so when I use Fi it is very easy to spot-to feel rather. But I have to stop using Ne to find it. However Ne feeds it other people's unhappiness, so even when used in isolation it still retains all the "possible" pain others may feel, previously perceived-which is why I think it differs from SeFi.

That's why I said it would be hard to separate Fe from Ni. "Why?" is something that Ni asks about everything, it looks in and tries to understand how things work. I don't think I ever use Fe as a separate, isolated function, it would need to be filtered through Ni and that changes it quite a bit.

ISFJs seem much more social manners focused. My favorite ISFJ send cards and organizes baby showers and does all of the nice, expected things. She is very concious of what others think and very much wants everyone to be happy. INFJs are very different and can be really weird or really grounding and feel very accepting. I do have one who wants to "red" and really forceful to the point of being almost bossy at times.

 

[nynesneg]

Can you give examples of your conversation with your ENFJ friend? All these terms make me confused. lol. But if you could give examples of what was said perhaps I could give useful suggestions on how to respond to the ENFJ.

 

[Taizic]

I wasn't with an NF...ever. But I was once with an ST. Very nice fellow, a bit selfish at times, but very very sweet. If NF's were to pair with anyone (of course this accusation is my own opinion...) it'd be an ST, because they give the NF things they can learn and grow on.

 

[cascadeco]

People say this and I wonder about myself because although I'm in touch with the feelings of others, I know plenty well what I want, what I like, what I dislike, etc. Then again the first and only cognitive processes test I took showed Fe and Fi next to equal.

Like you, on a cognitive functions test long ago my Fi was always quite high. Higher than Fe, actually. But I attribute that to my introvertedness. But it is also because I DO tend to know what I enjoy and don't enjoy, and value and don't value, and I know when my life is out of balance and what I need to focus on, etc etc - which is what the Fi questions tend to revolve around. I am also pretty in tune with my emotional state and patterns of my emotions/personality/behavior. I might not know what to DO about them immediately, and often might not give them much weight because I know they are simply of the moment or I need to analyze them further (don't like acting prematurely) to find out what's at the root, but I am definitely aware.

But I see huge differences in real-life between myself and Fi-doms/NFP's. So that leads me to believe that I simply do not embody Fi as a prominent aspect of my cognitive thought and consequent decision-making/perceiving processes or how I approach and prioritize things in real life, and Fi (as a function, not as simply having a value system, because everyone has one of those) isn't a significant component in how I interact with others.

For me, I think I am pretty in touch with my own emotions/values, but I also tend to be very agnostic/subjective when it comes to value systems in general, so probably don't really relate to Fi as a dominant/aux function as a result, because I don't believe in the inherent 'rightness' or 'truth' of my own value system, although I do hold a few of my beliefs quite close to me and they are a large component of my character; I just view them as my particular values and know other people have theirs, and I see no point of pushing my own agenda or placing myself and my own value system on a higher plane than anyone else's, or as more 'right' than anyone else's. Maybe it's why I don't get up in arms about extremely opposing viewpoints from mine...I just go...'Huh, you think that? Interesting. I could see that, if I look at it in a different light...' It's a strange mix of my knowing who I am and what I want out of life (in big vague generalities, not much with specifics, I'm afraid), and knowing that much of my identity is by nature - by how I think - pretty uncertain about things too. I've said before that I'm 100% certain in my uncertainty about many things. But I am in really good touch with my own emotional state, now (to my chagrin at times)...this has come over time.

blah, that was a total tangent. sorry. (and apologies in advance for any gross generalizations I've made about Fi; it's just something I don't entirely grasp and probably never will, even after talking to Fi-dom's about it)

 

[Amargith]

I agree with Lauren Ashley that Ni is also quite interested in the 'Why' and really wanting to understand, on a deep level, the workings and motivations of others and why they feel, act, or think the way they do. For myself, the NiFe probably results in my always finding people 'Interesting'. Not immediately judging, but just being rather fascinated, and even understanding, other peoples' perceptions and way of approaching the world, even if I don't myself hold the views or approach in that way. I think a phrase I often use is...'Huh, that's interesting' - or some form of that phrase.

But, I also kinda relate to Amargith's description of Fe being more driven to a workable solution. It's my push towards closure. I have noticed in myself that while I might for a long while listen to someone, and empathize, etc, I eventually hit a point where I don't want to hear the problem anymore, I want the person to either work on a 'solution' and demonstrate some sort of change or action on their part to solve their problem besides just sitting in their emotions, or I don't want to hear them talk about it anymore. To be clear, this would involve a period of time; weeks or months (and I'm aware the nature of some problems takes years to resolve, and I'm understanding of that). After a period of time, and very much depending on the situation and the person, I will grow impatient and I won't be able to be purely empathetic anymore - I will want the person to move forward. I get tired of just being the listener. I don't know that this is exclusive to Fe, however. I do agree though that Fe is more closure-oriented, in general.

I also understand the 'stoic' concept, and that matches how a couple of my NFJ friends come across.

And I don't personally relate to the social etiquette concept. I mean, I believe in being respectful and tactful, but I'm definitely not a dominant Fe and don't relate to many of the more tangible, Fe-dom aspects of Fe - hostessing, making sure everyone in a group is being attended to, etc.

Edit: I also think there are many dimensions of Fe. Your more tangible, social-etiquette/cultural 'rules' one tends to be what most people associate with Fe, and it is why Fe can get such a bad rep. There's also the dimension of 1:1 interaction with another and how that dynamic works - communication style, *active* listening (something I don't think NFP's do quite so well), questioning, and really attuning yourself to the other person and putting your own beliefs/reactions on the back burner as they don't really apply to how the other person might operate; adjusting communication style as necessary. And, there are other aspects of Fe I'm sure, but those are the two at the forefront of my mind right now.

It's odd..I completely relate to this all. I had to learn the listening though..I get so excited and enthused that I constantly wanna mirror them and reference my own personal experiences to build up a bond. But in essence, once NFPs realize that, listening isn't a problem..at all.

Like you, on a cognitive functions test long ago my Fi was always quite high. Higher than Fe, actually. But I attribute that to my introvertedness. But it is also because I DO tend to know what I enjoy and don't enjoy, and value and don't value, and I know when my life is out of balance and what I need to focus on, etc etc - which is what the Fi questions tend to revolve around. I am also pretty in tune with my emotional state and patterns of my emotions/personality/behavior. I might not know what to DO about them immediately, and often might not give them much weight because I know they are simply of the moment or I need to analyze them further (don't like acting prematurely) to find out what's at the root, but I am definitely aware.

But I see huge differences in real-life between myself and Fi-doms/NFP's. So that leads me to believe that I simply do not embody Fi as a prominent aspect of my cognitive thought and consequent decision-making/perceiving processes or how I approach and prioritize things in real life, and Fi (as a function, not as simply having a value system, because everyone has one of those) isn't a significant component in how I interact with others.

For me, I think I am pretty in touch with my own emotions/values, but I also tend to be very agnostic/subjective when it comes to value systems in general, so probably don't really relate to Fi as a dominant/aux function as a result, because I don't believe in the inherent 'rightness' or 'truth' of my own value system, although I do hold a few of my beliefs quite close to me and they are a large component of my character; I just view them as my particular values and know other people have theirs, and I see no point of pushing my own agenda or placing myself and my own value system on a higher plane than anyone else's, or as more 'right' than anyone else's. Maybe it's why I don't get up in arms about extremely opposing viewpoints from mine...I just go...'Huh, you think that? Interesting. I could see that, if I look at it in a different light...' It's a strange mix of my knowing who I am and what I want out of life (in big vague generalities, not much with specifics, I'm afraid), and knowing that much of my identity is by nature - by how I think - pretty uncertain about things too. I've said before that I'm 100% certain in my uncertainty about many things. But I am in really good touch with my own emotional state, now (to my chagrin at times)...this has come over time.

blah, that was a total tangent. sorry. (and apologies in advance for any gross generalizations I've made about Fi; it's just something I don't entirely grasp and probably never will, even after talking to Fi-dom's about it)

Once again, I recognize myself in this a lot. But like you don't feel you embody Fi, I feel the same with Fe. It makes it hard to for me to grasp. But from this I'd conclude that if you mix the right portions of Fe and Fi you get the perfect blend to deal with people.

I was always puzzled how it was that you felt connected with people when Fe is such a...well, tool to utilize people and organize them. I find it hard to do that without losing depth in the connection, since you're essentially not focussing on the emotions in the situation but on the goal which uses the emotions as tool. But..I kinda see now how it works.

 

[Fecal McAngry]

If you have a one on one conversation with an ENFJ or and INFJ, you will feel understood, regardless of your type.

I wish this were so...

 

[a24kar]

I have tried this a couple of times and from the little i read of the description its fairly accurate. However the problems comes from being exactly what we are, beings who entire life philosophy is based and built on a few highly guarded values. When these values clash, their is no hope. End of story.

So if your interested in pairing up with another NF be sure before you do so that you know them well enough that your values wont clash...ever.

Yes, yes, yes.

I've experienced failed relationships with other NF types because of this twice now.

 

[a24kar]

For me, I think the ideal match would be NF with Fe, so another INFJ or an ENFJ. The other two NFs are Fi, and I can envision my face melting off my skull after awhile. No more men who are high Fi or Se. Love them like brothers, but I don't want them as partners.

This is where my mind resides also at the moment.

 

[angell_m]

I nearly ended up dating an INFP

If you had stopped there, I swear it would sound negative.

"Wow, you was about to date an INFP?"
"Yeah, nearly."
"Phew, glad you didn't."
"Mhm, those guys can be a pain."
"Yeah, hate it how they are so down to earth."
"Disgusting isn't it?"
"I want a man that beats me, is constantly jealous, and cheats."
"Right on!"
"Girl power!"
"Pink clouds!"

I'm just kidding tho. I just. My imagination just took a hold of me there for a second. Pardon.

 

[Esoteric Wench]

Though some opposite qualities may be a good compliment, it seems that having similar preferences in certain areas is critical.

I think N-N and S-S is extremely important. After that, I think that J-J and P-P may be pretty important. Not sure after that. Maybe the same temperament (NF-NF, SJ-SJ, NT-NT, and SP-SP). In any case, I think NF-NF is a good match, even with all the challenges that come with it.

Yes. Yes. Yes. +1. The N-N and S-S is extremely important! I've come to believe this is MOST important for those of us with dominant perceiving preferences, be it Sensing or Intuiting.

Types with Dominant Sensing or Dominant Intuition
ISFJ / ISTJ / ESFP / ESTP / INFJ / INTJ / ENFP / ENTP

These types experience the greatest communication gap with persons of the opposite perceiving preference. Point and case: Imagine an INFJ and ESFP dating? Egad! These types are on different planets.

J with P can work well IF both partners are willing to view the other as having complementary skills. AND, if both partners are committed to minimizing their J or P excesses. Otherwise, the J with P thing is akin to banging one's head into a cement wall.

I thought this post / thread was very insightful. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

 

[angell_m]

I can't believe how the author of this topic made me sound like barbie in her quote.

Edited: I don't want to be that person out loud. I'm closet sensitive.

 

[Esoteric Wench]

i think it works pretty well. it is but one way of grouping priorities, so it makes sense to use these as a guide to understand how you would relate to someone and have similar life goals.

i prefer cognitive functions that i find desirable, agreeable, and complementary. i prefer N doms first and foremost in terms of sheer communicability, but i also have certain enneagram types who inspire me and i find attractive (7, 4, 5, and sometimes 6 and 9 work well for me too). nf is high on the priority list, anyone who doesn't have a strong desire for self-actualization is dead to me, but nt types often have this too- it just sometimes comes in a different package depending on enneagram defense. infps and intps are really viable mates for infj too, i find- enfj would be really tough, i can't imagine myself with enfj or entj.

throughout the course of my life sparks have *almost* exclusively been with other nfs. a few other isfjs and sfps.

You should post this to the NF Females' List of Deal Breakers!

 

[Esoteric Wench]

They might show their pain in some forms but I know quite a few FJs that will never overtly complain about their situation. Yes, they can be very stoic from what I've experienced. I know plenty of FJs. In my core family alone there are at least 3.

I've known a few stoic FJs. I think it also has to do with them not wanting to express themselves unless they are sure of how it's going to be received.

 

[SillySapienne]

I posted earlier in this thread, and I didn't even reread it, but, I think I could be with an ENFJ, hypothetically.



(It would be spicayyy, fo sho! )

 

[SillySapienne]

^ Hahahahaa, I've been watching too much Frasier, although I don't find Frasier that attractive, he's so pathetic in a cute kind of way.

 

[Lauren]

Yes. Yes. Yes. +1. The N-N and S-S is extremely important! I've come to believe this is MOST important for those of us with dominant perceiving preferences, be it Sensing or Intuiting.

Types with Dominant Sensing or Dominant Intuition
ISFJ / ISTJ / ESFP / ESTP / INFJ / INTJ / ENFP / ENTP

These types experience the greatest communication gap with persons of the opposite perceiving preference. Point and case: Imagine an INFJ and ESFP dating? Egad! These types are on different planets.

J with P can work well IF both partners are willing to view the other as having complementary skills. AND, if both partners are committed to minimizing their J or P excesses. Otherwise, the J with P thing is akin to banging one's head into a cement wall.

I thought this post / thread was very insightful. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

I agree with this. I've always been attracted to and have the best romantic relationships with a fellow P. I'm also a believer of the N-N relationship, though I haven't had long-term romantic relationships with Ns. I have very good friends (life-long) with Ns, though. I've often wondered why I've fallen in love, hard, a few times with NFs, and why, instead of becoming lovers, they instead became my beloved friends. I don't love them less that we weren't lovers but I know that to know another N as more than friend would be so good for me. Well, one did become more than friend for a few weeks--I never forgot him. A shared imagination and love of the potential, the romantic, the unseen, the abstract, is wonderful.

 

[Lauren]

PS--I definitely fit the description of Emphathist as it applies to relationships (posted by Wonkavision). I can relate to most of that. I don't expect a partner to feel the way that I do about a relationship because, in my experience, men who feel similarly don't come along that often. I know that I'll bring that emphathist quality to the relationship while understanding it may be appreciated by my partner, if not fully understood. The trouble begins when an NF gives too much in a relationship because they are following their ideals, and a partner takes them for granted. With NF-NF, you both want to give to one another and look for ways to make the other person feel good. It's a relationship of increase.

 

[You]

[youtube="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pXfHLUlZf4&feature=channel"]Mating Style[/youtube]

 

[blomiki]

As someine in a real-life NF+NF relationship I consider it my privilege to contribute here

Oh my GOSH I never thought I'd say this but pleeeease baby could you me a tiny bit more aware of your surroundings for five seconds. Contrary to how you make it seem, it's not that hard to find your way using a map. Get yourself some new shoes.

I think it was mentioned here somewhere, but I can't find it now: NF+NF can get a bit too much sometimes and then one of them compensates by going ST on the other one. This may also have to do with the theory that ENFPs will become nasty immature ISTJs when under pressure.

He is still the man of my dreams, but I'm just more aware of our mutual shortcomings now and sometimes they drive me up the wall.