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Thread: NFs with NFs

  1. #51
    Junior Member SheWaits's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    Actually I've always wanted to ask how you experience Fe. I mean, I'm quite good at Fe myself, but I use it as a tool and always as an aid to NeFi. But I don't *feel* it. I don't feel the motivation of Fe as it is just a tool. Whereas Fi I live and breathe..couldn't imagine living without it. So I'd love to know how you live and breathe Fe..what that's like.
    My personal experience of Fe is that it always asks the question, "How will this affect [insert name(s)]?" It seldom cares about its own gratification, except that it finds gratification in knowing that everyone in its circle of influence is happy and safe. Fe feels a genuine interest in other people.

    When overworked, depressed, or going through some other stressful situation, Fe can feel taken advantage of. At that point, it would like to fall into the arms of a kindred soul and just rest for a little while, re-charge, and then return to its normal activities. Doesn't ask for much, but it needs what it needs.
    "Idealists expect to discover a deeper meaning in almost everything, as profound truths can be extrapolated from even the most transparent of subjects. We would do well to realize, though, that some things are exactly what they seem." ~Myself

  2. #52
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    I'm familiar with that question..it follows right after 'how do I feel about this?' with Fi, though it's likely more formulated as 'And how must s/he feel in all this considering this and this and this is going on?'

    I also find that Fe seems to look more, like Te, for a workable solution, a way to 'fix' the situation and get things moving again (What does this person need?) . Whereas Fi seems to be like Ti and wants to know the details and how it all works (How does this person feel and why?). The thing is, to me, that makes Fe seem colder than Fi because it seems to be more...geared towards making things function instead of the person? Although I know that's not how you feel it. So I'm kinda wondering if you could explain that to me.


    Sy: good points.
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  3. #53
    Revelation Lauren Ashley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    I also find that Fe seems to look more, like Te, for a workable solution, a way to 'fix' the situation and get things moving again (What does this person need?) . Whereas Fi seems to be like Ti and wants to know the details and how it all works (How does this person feel and why?). The thing is, to me, that makes Fe seem colder than Fi because it seems to be more...geared towards making things function instead of the person? Although I know that's not how you feel it. So I'm kinda wondering if you could explain that to me.
    That's why I said it would be hard to separate Fe from Ni. "Why?" is something that Ni asks about everything, it looks in and tries to understand how things work. I don't think I ever use Fe as a separate, isolated function, it would need to be filtered through Ni and that changes it quite a bit.

  4. #54
    Senior Member TopherRed's Avatar
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    Fe is all about social ettiqute and emotional protocol. Beyond that, it's hard to describe without dragging the other functions in for ENFJ. It's like balancing people as both resources and soul mates; both as utility and as family. Fi users have a hard time with this concept before they understand the differences between good Fe and bad (immature) Fe.

    There are two types of "Bad" Fe Users-
    Impotently "Bad"-
    1. The Ignorant and Abused. Those who cannot control themselves or their image in their social environment. I was like this up and until Jr. High...sense I lacked the strong "sense of self" that comes with Fi, I chameleoned my way around, which didn't quite work as I was always a loud, boisterous child. Abuse victims may also suffer from this--those who are shut down to the point where they can no longer alter their image in society or their viewpoints of themselves.

    Morally/Skillfully "Bad"-2. Manipulators. As a result of abuse, bad moral compasses growing up, etc, many Fe users utilize their ability to control social situations to their own advantage. There are bad manipulators (skilled), who leave a wake of relational destruction in their path, and good manipulators, of whom, you probably will have little knowledge of their taking advantage of you. Their Fe is used to help themselves. This applies to both ENFJs and ESFJs.

    Good Fe Users (Benevolence)-
    These neither allow themselves to be manipulated, nor do they manipulate in the negative sense. They do have control of their own image in the social sphere (they use their influence and entertain with Fe to maintain their image), and they do use any influence they have over people for the societal good, rather than for themselves, strictly. It's basically a system of social reciprocity; we help people, and we use our "pull" with people to help others (sometimes for a repeat of the cycle, sometimes it's a selfless act). Some say that's selfish, but we all give each other things, and to some degree, we all feel greatful and want to help each other in return. ExFJs are aware of this principle, and the healthier ones use it to create a better society for everybody (themselves included).
    Love is the point.

  5. #55
    Revelation Lauren Ashley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzcrossed View Post
    Fe is all about social ettiqute and emotional protocol. Beyond that, it's hard to describe without dragging the other functions in for ENFJ. It's like balancing people as both resources and soul mates; both as utility and as family.
    Is that what it means to you? That is not what it means to me. I've long since believe there is a difference in functions depending on their hierarchy, i.e. dominant Fe is expressed differently from secondary Fe. But is it about social etiquette really, or is etiquette a side effect of caring about others' feelings?

  6. #56
    Senior Member TopherRed's Avatar
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    You're right. But it's got less to do with caring about others; when our feelings aren't taken into consideration, we cringe like nails on a chalk board, so that becomes how we operate--generally we treat others the way we want to be treated. We need that "proper care and feeding" of our emotions, it's very important to us because not communicating to us with that etiquette causes us pain.

    Or at least it hurts me. It's numbed as I've gotten older; I can much more readily deal with abusive NTs and STs.
    Love is the point.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    They might show their pain in some forms but I know quite a few FJs that will never overtly complain about their situation. Yes, they can be very stoic from what I've experienced. I know plenty of FJs. In my core family alone there are at least 3.



    Stoic caregiver is definitely not an oxymoron. I've know plenty of FJs who dedicated their very lives to helping others end endured it despite mentally and physically drained the whole time. And I didn't use stoic as an insult so much as acknowledging a fact. They would do better to rest their Fe once in a while and think about themselves.



    I find it interesting you seem to think I'm not sure of my own type.
    i completely understand what he means by stoic caregiver. my mother is an infj and one of my best friends who is a mother is as well and i would say that about both of them.

    i don't see it as negative at all...it's admirable imo.
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  8. #58
    Junior Member SheWaits's Avatar
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    If you have a one on one conversation with an ENFJ or and INFJ, you will feel understood, regardless of your type. NFJs have an innate ability to "lock in" to the other person and accurately see beyond what they're saying. (Myers Briggs' description, not just my own). I've seen both sides of this, being the INFJ who receives the insight and talking with an ENFJ who received the insight about me. It's refreshing.

    We have a strong ability to empathize (not to be confused with sympathize). Empathy is understanding and relating to someone, sympathy is feeling sorry for someone. Most people don't want pity, they just want to be heard and understood.

    Fe is less in touch with its own feelings and more in touch with the feelings of others. This explains why we can have meltdowns. Our needs can steadily rise without our notice...and then "suddenly," there they are, bigger than life. We're just as surprised as you are when it happens. However, as soon as the situation is confronted and discussed, I personally feel instant relief, if the other person is willing to acknowledge my feelings. They don't have to say that I'm right, they just have to appear to understand.
    "Idealists expect to discover a deeper meaning in almost everything, as profound truths can be extrapolated from even the most transparent of subjects. We would do well to realize, though, that some things are exactly what they seem." ~Myself

  9. #59
    Revelation Lauren Ashley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SheWaits View Post
    If you have a one on one conversation with an ENFJ or and INFJ, you will feel understood, regardless of your type. NFJs have an innate ability to "lock in" to the other person and accurately see beyond what they're saying.
    This is not necessarily true. If it were, we wouldn't have threads or comments about how a person feels that their ENFJ or INFJ mother/wife/father/sister/brother/friend doesn't understand them and asking how to better express themselves to be understood. Appearing to understand is quite different from actually understanding.

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWaits View Post
    Fe is less in touch with its own feelings and more in touch with the feelings of others. This explains why we can have meltdowns.
    People say this and I wonder about myself because although I'm in touch with the feelings of others, I know plenty well what I want, what I like, what I dislike, etc. Then again the first and only cognitive processes test I took showed Fe and Fi next to equal.

  10. #60
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    I also find that Fe seems to look more, like Te, for a workable solution, a way to 'fix' the situation and get things moving again (What does this person need?) . Whereas Fi seems to be like Ti and wants to know the details and how it all works (How does this person feel and why?). The thing is, to me, that makes Fe seem colder than Fi because it seems to be more...geared towards making things function instead of the person? Although I know that's not how you feel it. So I'm kinda wondering if you could explain that to me.
    I agree with Lauren Ashley that Ni is also quite interested in the 'Why' and really wanting to understand, on a deep level, the workings and motivations of others and why they feel, act, or think the way they do. For myself, the NiFe probably results in my always finding people 'Interesting'. Not immediately judging, but just being rather fascinated, and even understanding, other peoples' perceptions and way of approaching the world, even if I don't myself hold the views or approach in that way. I think a phrase I often use is...'Huh, that's interesting' - or some form of that phrase.

    But, I also kinda relate to Amargith's description of Fe being more driven to a workable solution. It's my push towards closure. I have noticed in myself that while I might for a long while listen to someone, and empathize, etc, I eventually hit a point where I don't want to hear the problem anymore, I want the person to either work on a 'solution' and demonstrate some sort of change or action on their part to solve their problem besides just sitting in their emotions, or I don't want to hear them talk about it anymore. To be clear, this would involve a period of time; weeks or months (and I'm aware the nature of some problems takes years to resolve, and I'm understanding of that). After a period of time, and very much depending on the situation and the person, I will grow impatient and I won't be able to be purely empathetic anymore - I will want the person to move forward. I get tired of just being the listener. I don't know that this is exclusive to Fe, however. I do agree though that Fe is more closure-oriented, in general.

    I also understand the 'stoic' concept, and that matches how a couple of my NFJ friends come across.

    And I don't personally relate to the social etiquette concept. I mean, I believe in being respectful and tactful, but I'm definitely not a dominant Fe and don't relate to many of the more tangible, Fe-dom aspects of Fe - hostessing, making sure everyone in a group is being attended to, etc.

    Edit: I also think there are many dimensions of Fe. Your more tangible, social-etiquette/cultural 'rules' one tends to be what most people associate with Fe, and it is why Fe can get such a bad rep. There's also the dimension of 1:1 interaction with another and how that dynamic works - communication style, *active* listening (something I don't think NFP's do quite so well), questioning, and really attuning yourself to the other person and putting your own beliefs/reactions on the back burner as they don't really apply to how the other person might operate; adjusting communication style as necessary. And, there are other aspects of Fe I'm sure, but those are the two at the forefront of my mind right now.
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